The Greens strike again! Electricity prices to rise this WINTER!

jane5

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Electricity prices set to rise | BreakingNews.ie

This is ridiculous. Beyond ridiculous.

This is one of the main high costs associated with doing business in this country. Not the fecking minimum wage. So this move will further put people off from investing in businesses here in Ireland, and possibly contribute to further job losses.

At a time when peoples wages have been slashed, benefits cut, many out of work, energy costs have been given the go ahead to RISE?

For what? ESB made something like 0.5 billion profit last year.

I no longer think this Government are incompetent, or stupid. I think they have an agenda that is incompatible with the citizens best interests. If anyone EVER votes for the Greens again, I will be surprised.
 


Cassandra Syndrome

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But, the welfare of stags and polar bears come first.....

Cue Eco fascists spitting venom on this thread ........3.......2......1
 

MsAnneThrope

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The average pay and overtime for the ESB's 7,783 employees in 2009 was €75,500, the annual report shows.
ESB chief executive Padraig McManus was paid more than €750,000 last year, making him the highest-paid boss of a state-owned company.
The ESB's annual report says its profits in 2009 more than doubled to €580m. The surge in profits was because of gains made on the sale of some of its power stations to Spanish company Endessa. Its turnover dropped 11% to €3bn as customers fled to Bord Gáis, which is undercutting the ESB's electricity prices.
Sunday Tribune August 1st 2010: ESB boss's salary surged to €750k in 2009 despite cut

In a uniquely Irish Semi-State solution to losing market share, instead of a radical review of your operations and implementing cost-cutting exercises, you instead increase your prices without trimming the fat. Geniuses!
 

CookieMonster

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I never though anybody could out cretin the cretin element in FF. I was wrong.
 

Cassandra Syndrome

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Was it a Twilight Zone episode from the 1950s that some guy went into the future of the 21st century and the world was being run by idiots and everything was being done arseways?

Has to be one of the most prophetic pieces of fiction of all time.
 

MPB

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Sunday Tribune August 1st 2010: ESB boss's salary surged to €750k in 2009 despite cut

In a uniquely Irish Semi-State solution to losing market share, instead of a radical review of your operations and implementing cost-cutting exercises, you instead increase your prices without trimming the fat. Geniuses!
Except this is an across the board measure, so all of them will benefit from a price increase.

Our Govt have a funny understanding of the concept of competition in the market place.

It seems to involve 3 State owned Companies regulated by the State.

Very FF.
 

Munnkeyman

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When viewing the ESB as an organisation
the Peter Principle definitely holds true.
They are pathetically hopeless.
 

Destiny's Soldier

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Well as I keep saying, the public signed up to the Lisbon Treaty and would also have signed the Copenhagen Treaty if it came about. But the public didn't realise that when you're expected to cut emissions by 80% by 2050, it means in part, economic destruction of the country. The Govt needs money to be set aside to fund these "Green Energy" investments if we are to cut CO2 by 80%. Where else is the money to come from only Carbon Taxes?

If they can't get road tolls they'll get it from your ESB bill.

Up yours the people of Ireland, you are getting what you deserve for voting yes to Lisbon.
 

termcg

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In a uniquely Irish Semi-State solution to losing market share, instead of a radical review of your operations and implementing cost-cutting exercises, you instead increase your prices without trimming the fat. Geniuses!
You do realise that ESB does not control its own domestic prices and that they are set by the Commission for Energy Regulation. The policy is to push prices higher so that companies like Airtricity and Bord Gais enter the market to bring prices back down i.e competition. As someone said to be a while back ESB was the only Irish company to DOWNSIZE during the celtic tiger years. It has been on the public record for years that ESB must get below 60% market share on the island so ESB losing market share is government policy.

The only market segment that ESB still have >60% market share is domestic accounts. The view is that ESB Customer Supply should be <60% by next March and then ESB will be allowed set its own prices. Now the thing is ESB cannot undercut the competition too much as one it breaks the 60% mark the handcuffs are put back on.

The Breaking News story has incredibly little information in it. What is happening is domestic rates are going to rise and business rates are going to fall but they failed to mention that detail.

Finally have a look around for the news stories from about 3 years ago when the ESB said they could cut electricity prices by 17% due to the drop in international fuel prices but the competition kicked up a fuss and said no. The regulator only cut prices by 10%. Its on the public record.

Yes I do work for the ESB, yes the average age is probably too high due to successive governments not letting ESB management tackle the unions however a 10% cut in wage costs would result in <1% reduction in bills. I am open to a pay cut in the organisation but like many other issues on the island its the obvious media attention grabbing proposal rather than a proper thought out solution.
 

SPN

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I know it won't do much to stop the ill-informed hysteria we can expect on this thread, but I'll just put on the record a couple of useful facts.

The CER has a formula for calculating electricity prices. Every year the electricity producers send in a report of their costs using the CER formula format. From this the CER calculates the prices for the coming year.

The net result is that the ESB is forced to charge more for its electricity that necessary because the privateers would not be able to "compete" if they had to sell their electricity at the prices ESB can sell for.

I'm not aware whether the report in the OP is accurate, but it would strike me that higher finance costs for the privateers may be a factor in any price increase.


An Phoblacht: Energy supply: Strange things happening in electricity industry

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MPB

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I know it won't do much to stop the ill-informed hysteria we can expect on this thread, but I'll just put on the record a couple of useful facts.

The CER has a formula for calculating electricity prices. Every year the electricity producers send in a report of their costs using the CER formula format. From this the CER calculates the prices for the coming year.

The net result is that the ESB is forced to charge more for its electricity that necessary because the privateers would not be able to "compete" if they had to sell their electricity at the prices ESB can sell for.

I'm not aware whether the report in the OP is accurate, but it would strike me that higher finance costs for the privateers may be a factor in any price increase.


An Phoblacht: Energy supply: Strange things happening in electricity industry

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So our Govts understanding of competition is having 3 State Companies fight over who can charge the most and the regulators job is to add up the 3 competing estimates, divide by 3 and hey presto, price rise decided.
 

Urmentor

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What are the Greens actually good for except perhaps for making token criticisms of their government partners re use of Government jet.
Are they adopting a "to hell with everyone, we are going to get hammered at next election anyway" approach I wonder??
 

termcg

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SPN I haven't worked on the SEM for over 2 years so my info might be a little out of date but I am fairly sure all prices i.e. customer supply tariffs, directed contracts and the pool price is all based on variable costs and not fixed costs so rent, rates, financing costs etc are not factored in and are meant to be covered by the capacity market and the infra-marginal rent from the pool price.

As far as I am aware, and let me say I have it on very good authority that domestic rates are going up so business rates can come down. Given that business rates are not regulated I am not entirely sure how this is meant to happen and might just be pipe dream by the CER.
 

SPN

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So our Govts understanding of competition is having 3 State Companies fight over who can charge the most and the regulators job is to add up the 3 competing estimates, divide by 3 and hey presto, price rise decided.
There are a lot more than three companies in the market, and the formula is a lot more complicated than your idiotic portrayal.

These Companies (Energia, Endesa, Etc.) were invited to build generation capacity based on the CER formula, and they have legally binding contracts with CER.

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MPB

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After Competition was introduced Elecricity prices rose by 64%.

Since the Competitors were allowed compete in the new rigged market place prices have fallen by 20-25% depending on how you pay your bill.

In October including a carbon tax, prices will have jumped by another 8%.

So we will be paying approx 40% more for our Electricity in October 2010 than we did pre competition in 2005.
 

Samell

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If we are having such a problem cutting the CO2 emissions that our electricity generates then instead of looking at unproven technology, wind, wave etc. let's go for cheap proven solutions, France generates 80% of its power from nuclear stations what is the CO2 output basically 0 there are almost 200 nuclear generating plants in Europe operating now, today . I can hear the squeals of anguish 'what about Chernobyl' what indeed? an old plant, undertrained staff, unsanctioned experiment, poor communication and a regime that refused to ask for help or would admit to failure untill too late. with a nuclear plant ESB could de-commission old, inefficient and poluting plants, cut staff and produce cheap electricity they could sell to the 'private competitors' and get our energy bills down to a reasonable level.
Green party they appear almost Amish in their regards to technology
 

SPN

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SPN I haven't worked on the SEM for over 2 years so my info might be a little out of date but I am fairly sure all prices i.e. customer supply tariffs, directed contracts and the pool price is all based on variable costs and not fixed costs so rent, rates, financing costs etc are not factored in and are meant to be covered by the capacity market and the infra-marginal rent from the pool price.

As far as I am aware, and let me say I have it on very good authority that domestic rates are going up so business rates can come down. Given that business rates are not regulated I am not entirely sure how this is meant to happen and might just be pipe dream by the CER.
It's a long time since I read up the detail either, so I'm just setting out the general concepts.

However, I'd be very surprised if financing costs are not in the matrix.

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SPN

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If we are having such a problem cutting the CO2 emissions that our electricity generates then instead of looking at unproven technology, wind, wave etc. let's go for cheap proven solutions, France generates 80% of its power from nuclear stations what is the CO2 output basically 0 there are almost 200 nuclear generating plants in Europe operating now, today . I can hear the squeals of anguish 'what about Chernobyl' what indeed? an old plant, undertrained staff, unsanctioned experiment, poor communication and a regime that refused to ask for help or would admit to failure untill too late. with a nuclear plant ESB could de-commission old, inefficient and poluting plants, cut staff and produce cheap electricity they could sell to the 'private competitors' and get our energy bills down to a reasonable level.
Green party they appear almost Amish in their regards to technology
Nuclear is not cheap. It can only happen if the taxpayer underwrites the profit margins of the privateers and guarantees to cover any costs that they don't want to pay.

Likewise, the Nuclear Plants that are posited as being suitable for our needs have serious technical problems that need to be addressed, and if these are addressed successfully, they will add Squillions to the cost of the plants which will make them totally uneconomic.#

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myksav

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After Competition was introduced Elecricity prices rose by 64%.

Since the Competitors were allowed compete in the new rigged market place prices have fallen by 20-25% depending on how you pay your bill.

In October including a carbon tax, prices will have jumped by another 8%.

So we will be paying approx 40% more for our Electricity in October 2010 than we did pre competition in 2005.
The joys of State controlled competitiveness.
 


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