The Ground Zero Mosque Should Be Created

Libertarian Contrarian

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When this came to the publics attention the chickenhawk, bellicose, neocons were bound to jump all over it and perpetuate it's publicity until the Mosque can't be built.

I've heard from so called conservatives like Michael Savage that it is insane to even think it and the Mosque has no place being there. A myriad of other tough guys like O'Reilly, Beck and countless others have also had their say regarding this Mosque.

Even ardent Liberals have shown ambivalence when it comes to this Mosque debate. A guy I like on youtube Pat Condell made a horrible attack on the Mosque being built and accuses the Islamo-fascists of basically using this as an excuse to show their contempt for the West.

I've thought about this and my first reaction was that it was disrespectful and it should not be built. But then after dwelling on it, it became clear to me that this is not about Islam or disrespectful, this is about Capitalism and Private Property.

The video attacks and polemics about the Mosque are only going to augment tensions between Muslims and non-Muslims as the media have raped that Religion like no other. South Park can show Buddha doing drugs and Jesus killing people, but they can't show Mohammed. Now, you'll say that's because there are lunatic Muslims - and you're correct. But South Park showed Mohammed a few years before 9/11 and nothing at all happened, and he's on the intro in every South Park episode. The media have concentrated on a very small minority and told us that this is all Muslims. How many on here have met Muslims sharing the beliefs of killing all unbelievers?

My argument for the Mosque is not that I agree with it being built - I do think it's horrible judgement and is insidious to the peace between Americans and Muslims. But, this is not a matter of what is and is not bad, this about about property rights. America - although now even admitted a Corporatist state, you only have to look at the Banker Bailout, but forget that, I'll stick to it's true Capitalism - is all about private property and Capitalism, yet isn't this just a case of property rights?

Where do we draw the line after this? Do we start restricting free speech because a few might get upset? Personally, I've no problem with an Englishman flying a "I'm glad for the famine" flag or a Nazi parading around with a Hitler t-shirt. Those who love true Capitalism and unequivocal freedom, must categorically defend this Mosques right to be built.

Showing jingoism about America is a great thing to do, but it's a contradiction to then say that this Mosque has no right to be built - when America is all about having the right to do what you want. I think Americans should come out and categorically state their support for private property, not for the Mosque.

Not allowing the Mosque to be built will not expiate for 9/11. Muslims died on that day as well. Taking the rights of the people to not build their Mosque is basically usurpation and the dreaded word that every tea party member hates: Socialism!

It's annoying the lack of reasoning with American's. And the fact they can't comprehend why they were even attacked on 9/11. This anti-Islamic rhetoric is incipient again and with war on the horizon with Iran - it doesn't look good.
 


Twin Towers

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Spending $100 million on it?? What Muslim group would have that much to spend on a building?
 

Libertarian Contrarian

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Spending $100 million on it?? What Muslim group would have that much to spend on a building?
That's not what people are arguing about. If you have information on where they're getting the money from then please post it. I assumed it was their own money they were using. If it's from the tax payer, then people who disagree have the right to protest and voice their concern.

But that's not the arguments I'm hearing. It's basically they're Muslim, it's a Mosque and that's it.
 

Ingersoll

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It's a tough one - I can see why it bothers the Americans, but as long as they allow any religious building - given their constitution it's difficult to see any argument against it except for an emotional one. The American right is currently riding the crazy-train and it's an election year, which explains a lot of the rhetoric.
 

liamfoley

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That's not what people are arguing about. If you have information on where they're getting the money from then please post it. I assumed it was their own money they were using. If it's from the tax payer, then people who disagree have the right to protest and voice their concern.

But that's not the arguments I'm hearing. It's basically they're Muslim, it's a Mosque and that's it.
I have no objections to the mosque, it was a few blocks from Ground Zero by the way, but the source of funding might be relevant. If it came from the Saudis for example.
 

Twin Towers

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That's not what people are arguing about. If you have information on where they're getting the money from then please post it. I assumed it was their own money they were using. If it's from the tax payer, then people who disagree have the right to protest and voice their concern.

But that's not the arguments I'm hearing. It's basically they're Muslim, it's a Mosque and that's it.
I've no idea where they are getting the money from, do you? Sounds like a flagship project, doesn't it?
 

Odyessus

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Gesture of triumphalism?

I think there is a feeling in the States that creating a mosque in a building so closely associated with the 9/11 attack is a gesture of triumphalism by militant Muslims.

Of course the people who want to build the mosque could allay these suspicions by incorporating a memorial to the 9/11 victims, and a prayer for reconciliation between Christians and Muslims, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
 

liamfoley

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I think there is a feeling in the States that creating a mosque in a building so closely associated with the 9/11 attack is a gesture of triumphalism by militant Muslims.

Of course the people who want to build the mosque could allay these suspicions by incorporating a memorial to the 9/11 victims, and a prayer for reconciliation between Christians and Muslims, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
Their reasons are not relevant. The 2nd amendment means that the govt. has no say in the matter, hence the inappropriateness of Obama's remarks on the subject. The imam had done some work abroad with the US State department. The story is a lot more complicated than many let on.
 

Odyessus

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Their reasons are not relevant. The 2nd amendment means that the govt. has no say in the matter, hence the inappropriateness of Obama's remarks on the subject. The imam had done some work abroad with the US State department. The story is a lot more complicated than many let on.

Of course people are legally entitled to build a mosque. It is also reasonable for others to see it as a gesture of triumphalism, especially since the the mosque builders have made no effort (to my knowledge) to dissuade people from this impression.


What remark of Obama's do you object to?
 

ergo2

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Liberty-contrarian

In this post you refer to the 9/11 attack.

Yet in another recent prolix post you argued the 9/11 was an inside job

Are you obsessing on this topic?
 

oggy

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This is an example of rational thinking being thrown out the window. A Mosque so near Ground Zero will be an instant target for the many lunatic militia groups across USA and of course if an attack is successful innocent lives will be lost
 

liamfoley

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Of course people are legally entitled to build a mosque. It is also reasonable for others to see it as a gesture of triumphalism, especially since the the mosque builders have made no effort (to my knowledge) to dissuade people from this impression.


What remark of Obama's do you object to?
I object to anything he has to say on the topic, it was inappropriate and out of place.
 

Libertarian Contrarian

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Liberty-contrarian

In this post you refer to the 9/11 attack.

Yet in another recent prolix post you argued the 9/11 was an inside job

Are you obsessing on this topic?
Yes, I argue it was an inside job? So what? 9/11 is the reason the Mosque is so vehemently attacked because of its meaning with regards to the people who attacked the towers.

That's all. If anything, I'm agreeing with the official story of what was told in this thread - except the fact that Bin Laden attacked America only because of women in mini skirts.
 

Libertarian Contrarian

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I have no objections to the mosque, it was a few blocks from Ground Zero by the way, but the source of funding might be relevant. If it came from the Saudis for example.
Came from the Saudis? America is backing that lunatic royal family. Sure America have bases in the Holy Land. One of the many reasons Bin Laden stated for attacking America.

Not to mention them being flown out on September 19th, 2001.
 

cry freedom

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When this came to the publics attention the chickenhawk, bellicose, neocons were bound to jump all over it and perpetuate it's publicity until the Mosque can't be built.

I've heard from so called conservatives like Michael Savage that it is insane to even think it and the Mosque has no place being there. A myriad of other tough guys like O'Reilly, Beck and countless others have also had their say regarding this Mosque.

Even ardent Liberals have shown ambivalence when it comes to this Mosque debate. A guy I like on youtube Pat Condell made a horrible attack on the Mosque being built and accuses the Islamo-fascists of basically using this as an excuse to show their contempt for the West.

I've thought about this and my first reaction was that it was disrespectful and it should not be built. But then after dwelling on it, it became clear to me that this is not about Islam or disrespectful, this is about Capitalism and Private Property.

The video attacks and polemics about the Mosque are only going to augment tensions between Muslims and non-Muslims as the media have raped that Religion like no other. South Park can show Buddha doing drugs and Jesus killing people, but they can't show Mohammed. Now, you'll say that's because there are lunatic Muslims - and you're correct. But South Park showed Mohammed a few years before 9/11 and nothing at all happened, and he's on the intro in every South Park episode. The media have concentrated on a very small minority and told us that this is all Muslims. How many on here have met Muslims sharing the beliefs of killing all unbelievers?

My argument for the Mosque is not that I agree with it being built - I do think it's horrible judgement and is insidious to the peace between Americans and Muslims. But, this is not a matter of what is and is not bad, this about about property rights. America - although now even admitted a Corporatist state, you only have to look at the Banker Bailout, but forget that, I'll stick to it's true Capitalism - is all about private property and Capitalism, yet isn't this just a case of property rights?

Where do we draw the line after this? Do we start restricting free speech because a few might get upset? Personally, I've no problem with an Englishman flying a "I'm glad for the famine" flag or a Nazi parading around with a Hitler t-shirt. Those who love true Capitalism and unequivocal freedom, must categorically defend this Mosques right to be built.

Showing jingoism about America is a great thing to do, but it's a contradiction to then say that this Mosque has no right to be built - when America is all about having the right to do what you want. I think Americans should come out and categorically state their support for private property, not for the Mosque.

Not allowing the Mosque to be built will not expiate for 9/11. Muslims died on that day as well. Taking the rights of the people to not build their Mosque is basically usurpation and the dreaded word that every tea party member hates: Socialism!

It's annoying the lack of reasoning with American's. And the fact they can't comprehend why they were even attacked on 9/11. This anti-Islamic rhetoric is incipient again and with war on the horizon with Iran - it doesn't look good.
We have a nerve telling Americans how to behave when our own Gaa supremos chastise Nemo Rangers for allowing a game of rugby to be played on their pitch.FFS

Nemo say ‘not guilty’ as GAA launch probe into Ireland rugby session - GAA, Sport - Belfasttelegraph.co.uk
 

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Trampas

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When this came to the publics attention the chickenhawk, bellicose, neocons were bound to jump all over it and perpetuate it's publicity until the Mosque can't be built.

I've heard from so called conservatives like Michael Savage that it is insane to even think it and the Mosque has no place being there. A myriad of other tough guys like O'Reilly, Beck and countless others have also had their say regarding this Mosque.

Even ardent Liberals have shown ambivalence when it comes to this Mosque debate. A guy I like on youtube Pat Condell made a horrible attack on the Mosque being built and accuses the Islamo-fascists of basically using this as an excuse to show their contempt for the West.

I've thought about this and my first reaction was that it was disrespectful and it should not be built. But then after dwelling on it, it became clear to me that this is not about Islam or disrespectful, this is about Capitalism and Private Property.

The video attacks and polemics about the Mosque are only going to augment tensions between Muslims and non-Muslims as the media have raped that Religion like no other. South Park can show Buddha doing drugs and Jesus killing people, but they can't show Mohammed. Now, you'll say that's because there are lunatic Muslims - and you're correct. But South Park showed Mohammed a few years before 9/11 and nothing at all happened, and he's on the intro in every South Park episode. The media have concentrated on a very small minority and told us that this is all Muslims. How many on here have met Muslims sharing the beliefs of killing all unbelievers?

My argument for the Mosque is not that I agree with it being built - I do think it's horrible judgement and is insidious to the peace between Americans and Muslims. But, this is not a matter of what is and is not bad, this about about property rights. America - although now even admitted a Corporatist state, you only have to look at the Banker Bailout, but forget that, I'll stick to it's true Capitalism - is all about private property and Capitalism, yet isn't this just a case of property rights?

Where do we draw the line after this? Do we start restricting free speech because a few might get upset? Personally, I've no problem with an Englishman flying a "I'm glad for the famine" flag or a Nazi parading around with a Hitler t-shirt. Those who love true Capitalism and unequivocal freedom, must categorically defend this Mosques right to be built.

Showing jingoism about America is a great thing to do, but it's a contradiction to then say that this Mosque has no right to be built - when America is all about having the right to do what you want. I think Americans should come out and categorically state their support for private property, not for the Mosque.

Not allowing the Mosque to be built will not expiate for 9/11. Muslims died on that day as well. Taking the rights of the people to not build their Mosque is basically usurpation and the dreaded word that every tea party member hates: Socialism!

It's annoying the lack of reasoning with American's. And the fact they can't comprehend why they were even attacked on 9/11. This anti-Islamic rhetoric is incipient again and with war on the horizon with Iran - it doesn't look good.




I have read a few juvenile contributions on this site but that one takes beating.
 

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