The growth of the Useless Class: what are the challenges which Ireland needs to address?

Congalltee

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 10, 2009
Messages
6,124
"In the 21st century we might witness the creation of a massive new unworking class: people devoid of any economic, political or even artistic value, who contribute nothing to the prosperity, power and glory of society. This “useless class” will not merely be unemployed — it will be unemployable."

The rise of the useless class – ideas.ted.com

Supermarket self-payment counters, automated transport check-in, algorithmic insurance underwriters writers and claims handlers are already here. Driverless taxis and buses are not far off. Jobs can be replaced by technology. Immigrants can fill many others. So what are the challenges posed by those left behind?

1. Unemployment is now around 7% and falling, and full employment is not regarded as 0% unemployment since there will are people transiting and unemployable - next generation criminal and social welfare class. Will these latter classes expand? How will the productive part of society pay for these dependants? How will communities be affected?
2. We remain in an EU whereby unskilled labour position can be filled so, will we get closer to Brexit/trump/Le Pen than we care to think. What cultural conflicts will arise?
3. Housing is already under pressure and unaffordable for many. Apparently, the Swiss, Danes and others (Ozzie?) have restrictions on foreign vulture fund investors owning residential property - should we?
4. What will the unions do?
5. Will most currents education programmes become redundant? Should there be cuts to social health programmes which save lives of those who refuse to help themselves e.g. anti-smoking, anti-obsesity?
6. Who will the useless class vote for?

Edit: 14:40 11/5
"Accelerationists argue that technology, particularly computer technology, and capitalism, particularly the most aggressive, global variety, should be massively sped up and intensified – either because this is the best way forward for humanity, or because there is no alternative. Accelerationists favour automation. They favour the further merging of the digital and the human. They often favour the deregulation of business, and drastically scaled-back government. They believe that people should stop deluding themselves that economic and technological progress can be controlled. They often believe that social and political upheaval has a value in itself.

Accelerationism, therefore, goes against conservatism, traditional socialism, social democracy, environmentalism, protectionism, populism, nationalism, localism and all the other ideologies that have sought to moderate or reverse the already hugely disruptive, seemingly runaway pace of change in the modern world. “Accelerationism is a political heresy."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/11/accelerationism-how-a-fringe-philosophy-predicted-the-future-we-live-in?CMP=fb_gu
 
Last edited:


Man or Mouse

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
7,005
The biggest problem with that is, that what we should do and, there is much to ponder and what we will do, will be two different things.

So far, the step we seem to be taking is the leap of faith towards populist solutions, Trump, Brexit, Le Pen - yet to come but on the way. Here it is the likes of Murphy, Boy Barrett etc.

What we should do is elect people of vision instead of rogue populists and amadán parish pumpers. Some kind of socialist solution is the only one workable. I don't know what it is, but the conversation needs to begin at the highest level and indeed at al levels.
 

GDPR

1
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
217,846
It would be a fitting punishment if those politicians, bankers, developers and various hanger-ons, senior politicians and senior civil/public servants, responsible for the recession and its aftermath joined this 'useless' category you speak of and on a commiserate wage. But of course they're not the problem, they have to looked after and look over there at those useless so and so's, must do something about them.
 

RasherHash

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
24,580
"In the 21st century we might witness the creation of a massive new unworking class: people devoid of any economic, political or even artistic value, who contribute nothing to the prosperity, power and glory of society. This “useless class” will not merely be unemployed — it will be unemployable."

The rise of the useless class – ideas.ted.com

Supermarket self-payment counters, automated transport check-in, algorithmic insurance underwriters writers and claims handlers are already here. Driverless taxis and buses are not far off. Jobs can be replaced by technology. Immigrants can fill many others. So what are the challenges posed by those left behind?

1. Unemployment is now around 7% and falling, and full employment is not regarded as 0% unemployment since there will are people transiting and unemployable - next generation criminal and social welfare class. Will these latter classes expand? How will the productive part of society pay for these dependants? How will communities be affected?
2. We remain in an EU whereby unskilled labour position can be filled so, will we get closer to Brexit/trump/Le Pen than we care to think. What cultural conflicts will arise?
3. Housing is already under pressure and unaffordable for many. Apparently, the Swiss, Danes and others (Ozzie?) have restrictions on foreign vulture fund investors owning residential property - should we?
4. What will the unions do?
5. Will most currents education programmes become redundant? Should there be cuts to social health programmes which save lives of those who refuse to help themselves e.g. anti-smoking, anti-obsesity?
6. Who will the useless class vote for?
Perhaps like Enda and Noonan they'll become TDs :confused:
 

GDPR

1
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
217,846
Now we learn why Congalltee is so keen on getting rid of the 8 th!

The concept that the value of a human life is intimately tied, maybe even exclusively tied, to how much they contribute to the "Economy" is one that I find personally pretty horrific. However it is a common one unfortunately in today's world, particularly among those who wield real power. With technology making for less and less humans necessary for the "Economy" than we are potentially looking at a very sinister situation arising...

Mind you we are already seeing something of a cull through the precariatization of the old working and lower middle classes which makes having children seem a daunting task to many people, pornography which leads to sexual dysfunction, drugs, infantilization so responsibility of raising up another generation is run away from, etc, etc. The real ruling Elites that govern the West today probably think they are going about it the charitable way by just getting the hoi polloi to die off quietly rather than just killing them.
 

Gin Soaked

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 25, 2016
Messages
4,029
Largely, I think this class falls into a few, distinct groups. I'm excluding the genuinely physically and intellectually disabled throughout my comments.

1. Manual labour will always exist in cleaning and catering and farming. Some roles there require literacy and a work ethic. When I could only get such jobs, I did them. We need to ensure that if this is as much as you can do, the state enables dignity and reasonable working conditions.

2. Entitlement class. Don't say this doesn't exist. Low personal responsibility . Often highly manipulative and act without consequence. Paw out either to the state or to indulgent parents. This class is toxic to any progression of any socialist mantra YET are the class most likely to vote for trots and others. This drives the class division in Ireland. It is very noteworthy that this class are utterly despised by hard working immigrants who are most likely to live beside them. It would be interesting to give EU citizens a Dail vote....

3. "Creeping redundancy' jobs. At risk of automation or cheaper markets or dying demand. This is the real working class. Difficult to retrain when older and when most skills were acquired on the job.
Like #1, most effort by state needed here.

#2 are what will always ensure the hard left will be limited and contaminated. Basically they are revilled and despised and, in some cases feared. However, they are common to all societies.
 
Last edited:

Man or Mouse

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
7,005
Largely, I think this class falls into a few, distinct groups. I'm excluding the genuinely physically and intellectually disabled throughout my comments.

1. Manual labour will always exist in cleaning and catering and farming. Some roles there require literacy and a work ethic. When I could only get such jobs, I did them. We need to ensure that if this is as much as you can do, the state enables dignity and reasonable working conditions.

2. Entitlement class. Don't say this doesn't exist. Low personal responsibility . Often highly manipulative and act without consequence. Paw out either to the state or to indulgent parents. This class is toxic to any progression of any socialist mantra YET are the class most likely to vote for trots and others. This drives the class division in Ireland. It is very noteworthy that this class are utterly despised by hard working immigrants who are most likely to live beside them. It would be interesting to give EU citizens a Dail vote....

3. "Creeping redundancy' jobs. At risk of automation or cheaper markets or dying demand. This is the real working class. Difficult to retrain when older and when most skills were acquired on the job.
Like #1, most effort by state needed here.

#2 are what will always ensure the hard left will be limited and contaminated. Basically they are revilled and despised and, in some cases feared. However, they are common to all societies.


Much better choice of words than the OP, but still talking about the same thing. I don't suppose our politicians are thinking that far ahead?

Re the bold bit, in the US, that class lives close by the lower paid worker class who also revile them and react by voting for the likes of Trump.
 

Spanner Island

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
23,974
Eventually humans will integrate with machines. It will be the next great evolutionary step... to transfer consciousness into machines where 'we' can 'live' and function.

And it's the only way we will be able to travel around the Universe because it will be much easier to maintain a machine and service it as it goes than trying to keep biological specimens like us alive within life supporting space craft.

'We' will effectively be part of the space craft/machine.

This evolutionary step will also enable 'us' to be 'shut down' for Millennia and awoken or 'rebooted' after the vast amounts of time and space have been covered.

Time - the great enemy of humanity will become irrelevant and will no longer be a barrier to travelling around the Universe. We might even be able to live forever if as AI machines we are clever enough to enable that...

What's this got to do with a 'Useless Class'? Not much... apart from the fact that if humanity doesn't stop breeding incessantly and adapt to the limitations of planet Earth... we will probably destroy ourselves and the planet before we get a chance to make the next great evolutionary step.

According to a recent estimate by the WWF there are now less than half of the living creatures on planet Earth as there were in 1970...
 
Last edited:

GDPR

1
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
217,846
Eventually humans will integrate with machines. It will be the next great evolutionary step... to transfer consciousness into machines where 'we' can 'live' and function..
I believe that the Mark of the Beast will be sold to the population along these lines.
 

PBP voter

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 18, 2015
Messages
9,254
It's great to see so few blocklayers on big site in Dublin.

Precast is the way to go.
 

blokesbloke

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2011
Messages
22,697
If the jobs not taken by technology "can be" filled by immigrants, the obvious solution is not to have them if there are unemployed locals who need those jobs.
 

Congalltee

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 10, 2009
Messages
6,124
If the jobs not taken by technology "can be" filled by immigrants, the obvious solution is not to have them if there are unemployed locals who need those jobs.
There's a certain brexit certain simplicity to that "obvious solution". Romanian cleaners, Bulgarian brickies (if they are not replaced by cheapo precast), Polish breakfast roll makers (unless replaced by premade/self-service), Latvian fruit pickers etc
 

Congalltee

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 10, 2009
Messages
6,124
It's great to see so few blocklayers on big site in Dublin.

Precast is the way to go.
In which case., there will be a demand in 10 years for surveyors, building contractors to fix the problems created by precast.

Same with these self-service in shops, I bumped into a leftie type in Tesco using it the other day - which I found baffling (I was using the cash machine, rather than giving my euros to the UK multinationaL
 

GDPR

1
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
217,846
If the jobs not taken by technology "can be" filled by immigrants, the obvious solution is not to have them if there are unemployed locals who need those jobs.
Indeed however there are two very important reasons the actual Ruling Elites have for further breaking down ethnic homogeneity. They do a lot of things that on the surface appear counter-intuitive but really aren't.
 

Henry94.

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 21, 2015
Messages
1,925
Technology will make millions of jobs disappear we are told but at the same time will slash production costs making the things we need much cheaper to produce. It is an opportunity for humanity to work less and enjoy life more but only if the kind of sentiment displayed in the OP is overcome politically. Our political concepts are out of date and the society based on work is coming to an end. What will replace it should be freedom and an outpouring of human creativity. It will have to be fought for I fear because the obsession with the accumulation of wealth will persist and some people will want a future with an elite living inside security protected mansions while everyone else takes their chances in slums.

You should look at everyone you think about voting for and ask yourself what side they would be on if the choice had to be made. Because it may come fast.
 

blokesbloke

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2011
Messages
22,697
There's a certain brexit certain simplicity to that "obvious solution". Romanian cleaners, Bulgarian brickies (if they are not replaced by cheapo precast), Polish breakfast roll makers (unless replaced by premade/self-service), Latvian fruit pickers etc
Sorry did you have a point to make? You say there's a "certain brexit certain simplicity" (?) to my argument and then list random jobs to which you have assigned seemingly random nationalities.

What is your actual argument or point you are attempting to make?
 

Spanner Island

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
23,974
If the jobs not taken by technology "can be" filled by immigrants, the obvious solution is not to have them if there are unemployed locals who need those jobs.
Cost of living is going to rocket in the UK... although I suspect immigration will continue at robust levels into places like the UK regardless of Brexit or anything else...

Either that or the jobs you refer to simply won't get done.

The long term solution is a reduction in the number of people on the planet... although there's no sign of such a trend happening any time soon if at all...

I suspect the global population will just keep on growing with all of the inevitable consequences of that...
 

Dame_Enda

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 14, 2011
Messages
53,658
7% is not accurate when you take account of people FG have removed from the rolls such as people on job activation schemes, which last year accounted for 4% of the workforce.
 

Dame_Enda

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 14, 2011
Messages
53,658
If the jobs not taken by technology "can be" filled by immigrants, the obvious solution is not to have them if there are unemployed locals who need those jobs.
Whats going on is like the American South during slavery but without the violence or physical abuse. Shadowy billionaires are the new Planter Class, and exploited migrant labour the new slaves. The results are predictable. In the US South, many unemployed Whites blamed the Black slaves for their lot (unfairly but likewise, the Republican Party was founded to oppose slavery for similar reasons).
 


New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top