The Holocaust of Capitalism in the Third World

Cael

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6.7 billion people live in the world.
The death rate is 0.9 per year.
This means 60 million people die each year.
Therefore, you believe that in the absence of capitalism, 10 million people would die each year. A death rate of 0.15.
A 0.9% death rate implies a 67-year life expectancy in the present day.

This means you believe that in the absence of capitalism, humans would on average live for 402 years.
Absolute nonsense. Much of Africa has life expectancy in the 40s. Capitalist Swaziland has a life expectancy of 39.6 Are you trying to claim it would be impossible to increase these figures?
 


Cael

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So Stalinism/Communism is Fianna Failism taken to the extreme? What with everyone being equal and some, the Nomenkaltura/Cummans being more equal than everyone else?

Regards...jmcc
People lived longer in the USSR than in Capitalist Russia today. Nobody can deny that.
 

Bebsaboo

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Cael out of interest in the perpetuation of the capitalist holocaust, do you you work in a normal job yourself? Where do you buy your furniture or your groceries?

PS. The Russian Federation isn't capitalist. It's an autocracy.
 

Cael

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I can predict threads by Cael just by reading the titles.
Yes, its a terrible crime to frighten the herd animals, or wake them up from their fantasies.
 

Cael

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Excellent post Cael. That's the crux of the problem. It's the difference between theory and practice. 'Libertarianism' is based on mere wishful thinking. Ironically, though the same criticism can be made of Marxism- what we saw there too in the course of the last century is the difference between theory and practice. Both capitalism and Marxism are based on misreadings of human nature and both make the same error of considering man primarily as an economic being, one maximising his avaricious appetite, the other pretending that it can be fixed by political intervention. No political ideology or economic system though will or can alleviate what is essentially a spiritual disorder.
Go raibh maith agat, a chara. I fully agree that it is a spiritual malaise. But, the big question is how do we make progress from the dire position we are now in?
 

Cael

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Cael out of interest in the perpetuation of the capitalist holocaust, do you you work in a normal job yourself? Where do you buy your furniture or your groceries?

PS. The Russian Federation isn't capitalist. It's an autocracy.
Yes, I do all that. One cant help being part of the society one lives in.

The Russian Federation, like China, is a capitalist economy with an autocratic state power. The idea that market economies necessarily create bourgeois democratic structures is plainly false. Indeed, the EU and the US seem to be moving towards the Chinese\Russian model rather than the other way round.
 

Bebsaboo

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Yes, I do all that. One cant help being part of the society one lives in.

The Russian Federation, like China, is a capitalist economy with an autocratic state power. The idea that market economies necessarily create bourgeois democratic structures is plainly false. Indeed, the EU and the US seem to be moving towards the Chinese\Russian model rather than the other way round.
You're conflating corruption, greed and wrong doing with Capitalism. As we've seen from Communist regimes, Capitalism doesn't have the monopoly on inflicting misery and pain. Bad things can and will happen under Capitalism and because of Capitalism but many good things happen under Capitalism too and you completely exclude them in any critique of capitalism that you make.

It also seems a bit rich to wail about the misdoings of capitalism but lacking the courage of your convictions when it comes to sustaining capitalism.
 

antiestablishmentarian

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You're conflating corruption, greed and wrong doing with Capitalism. As we've seen from Communist regimes, Capitalism doesn't have the monopoly on inflicting misery and pain. Bad things can and will happen under Capitalism and because of Capitalism but many good things happen under Capitalism too and you completely exclude them in any critique of capitalism that you make.
Yeah but capitalism sustains itself with the greed motive: thats what its based on and that has been at the root of what happened to this economy, ie unfettered greed and hunger for profits by the ruling class and their playthings in government. Corruption is the logical extension of such an economic system as its looking out for number one and f*cking the consequences for others.
 

Cael

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You're conflating corruption, greed and wrong doing with Capitalism.
Corruption, greed and wrong doing are the whole philosophical justification for capitalism. Capitalists argue that Communism cant work, precisely because human being are greedy, corrupt and prone to wrong doing. Capitalism is presented as a means of harnessing the demon beast.
 

Cael

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As we've seen from Communist regimes, Capitalism doesn't have the monopoly on inflicting misery and pain. Bad things can and will happen under Capitalism and because of Capitalism but many good things happen under Capitalism too and you completely exclude them in any critique of capitalism that you make.
Capitalism doesnt have a monopoly on doing bad things, but its whole direction is towards world annihilation. Captialism needs constant growth in production. The earth simply cant sustain that. The result is that a few countries are living a standard well beyond their means, and the vast bulk of the planet is being turned into an uninhabitable sewer.
 

Cael

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It also seems a bit rich to wail about the misdoings of capitalism but lacking the courage of your convictions when it comes to sustaining capitalism.
I could answer that in many obvious ways, but this thread is not about my subjective existence as such.
 

Bebsaboo

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Capitalism doesnt have a monopoly on doing bad things, but its whole direction is towards world annihilation. Captialism needs constant growth in production. The earth simply cant sustain that. The result is that a few countries are living a standard well beyond their means, and the vast bulk of the planet is being turned into an uninhabitable sewer.
That's a terribly Malthusian outlook Cael.

While I have no wish to pry into the details of your life, I think it is relevant in the context of describing this as a holocaust. Doesn't your lifestyle and the tyranny that it supports make you complicit in this most terrible waste of human life and potential that is capitalism?
 

greenjerseyman

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When Haiti won its independence in 1805, France put a naval blockage on the island for two decades. To life the blockade, Haiti was forced to agree to pay France 150 million Francs (France's entire GNP for a whole year at the time) in 1825 - as compensation for the loss of so many slaves. This was later reduced to 80 million Francs. By the end of the 19th century, repaying this this debt accounted for 80% of Haiti's budget. Believe it or not, the last payment was made in 1947. So, the great great great grandchildren of slaves were paying for the liberty of their ancestors.

I thought you would've known what France did to Haiti. They called reparation for the loss of land, so the slaves had to buy their freedom. Haiti is in its present condition because of France and the US. Haiti had the most productive and fertile land in the Caribbean until the US forced their cheap produce on them to eliminate the farming industry. And this is only one of hundeds of examples seen in the world. The US proclaim to be the world police when in fact they are the destroyers of nations!!
 

Cael

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That's a terribly Malthusian outlook Cael.

While I have no wish to pry into the details of your life, I think it is relevant in the context of describing this as a holocaust. Doesn't your lifestyle and the tyranny that it supports make you complicit in this most terrible waste of human life and potential that is capitalism?
Yes, of course it does.
 

Cael

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I thought you would've known what France did to Haiti. They called reparation for the loss of land, so the slaves had to buy their freedom. Haiti is in its present condition because of France and the US. Haiti had the most productive and fertile land in the Caribbean until the US forced their cheap produce on them to eliminate the farming industry. And this is only one of hundeds of examples seen in the world. The US proclaim to be the world police when in fact they are the destroyers of nations!!

I probably should have known, but I didnt, and it came as quite a shock to me. You are entirely correct about the US.
 

greenjerseyman

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The use of the word capitalism in your heading seems to be out of place to me.

I would say, the use of military power, immorality and evil.

Belief in free market trade, small goverment, low taxes and the freedom to be enterprising,
shouldn't be lumped in with;
the evil and illegal acts of supressing nations, fighting phoney wars and robbing taxpayers blind to bail out elites.

Unfortunately somewhere along the line both have become synonymous with eachother.


Excellent point. Capitalism isnt the problem but rather bad men with no regard for humanity. For instance, our government here couldn't care less if working class people live or die as they are only a burden
 

greenjerseyman

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To bring them down


Nasty one there Cael - you well know it hasn't happened.

Now if you can't defend your political beliefs without resorting to such nonsense then you really should give up on it.
I'd like to point out that Trotsky was living in New York when the Bolshevik revolution was beginning and his passage to Russia was paid for by US capitalists. To the elite, communism is Nirvana...a perfect world, and that is how they would like Europe to end up
 

Cael

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How do you reconcile that with your strongly held views on the evils of capitalism?
Again, my ego is not the topic of this thread. Your question is an interesting one, perhaps you could formulate it in more abstract terms and open a new thread?
 


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