The Holocaust of Capitalism in the Third World

Cael

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 19, 2006
Messages
13,304
Excellent point. Capitalism isnt the problem but rather bad men with no regard for humanity. For instance, our government here couldn't care less if working class people live or die as they are only a burden
I wonder if the CEOs who make decisions in their offices in New York and London, decisions that can very often mean a death sentence for thousands of people, are really bad men. Was every Nazi bad? I would say not. Its the system that they live in that makes such catastrophic decisions all but inevitable. If they dont make them, someone else will. You will very often hear capitalists say that they know capitalism is hugely destructive and unfair, but that they personally have no choice in the matter. Its either eat or be eaten.
 


Bebsaboo

Active member
Joined
Jun 30, 2010
Messages
145
Again, my ego is not the topic of this thread. Your question is an interesting one, perhaps you could formulate it in more abstract terms and open a new thread?
It's not all that abstract. If this is a holocaust of sorts then are you and the billions of others who support it through their choices in consumption as guilty as those who orchestrate it from the tops of their ivory towers?
 

Ifor Bach

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
10,072
Website
golang.pl
Cael out of interest in the perpetuation of the capitalist holocaust, do you you work in a normal job yourself? Where do you buy your furniture or your groceries?
Yes, I do all that. One cant help being part of the society one lives in.
That's a lie. Cael lives with his parents and has never left his bedroom his entire life. He has absolutely no comprehension of the world beyond his computer screen.
 

splashy

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Messages
308
It's not all that abstract. If this is a holocaust of sorts then are you and the billions of others who support it through their choices in consumption as guilty as those who orchestrate it from the tops of their ivory towers?
That's a cheap argument and more than a little unfair. Could you offer a plausible alternative to him? Repudiating capitalism is like repudiating your native language -that is, an immensely difficult proposition.
Anyway, all revolutionaries were once functional parts of the system they destroyed; no-one has any choice but to be.
 

Cael

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 19, 2006
Messages
13,304
It's not all that abstract. If this is a holocaust of sorts then are you and the billions of others who support it through their choices in consumption as guilty as those who orchestrate it from the tops of their ivory towers?
I dont think thats really true. Certainly, if the untermensch decided to overthrow the overlords and their corporations, we could do it - in a matter of seconds flat. But, humans are herd animals by instinct. We go with the flow to a great extent - and certainly will not generally risk the wrath of powerful and heavily armed people. We tend to justify to ourselves what is going on - or divert the whole topic, like you are trying to do now. Really thinking about what is really going on is frightening to most people, so they choose not to do it. Of course, the educational system does its best to instil fear and deference into us, and, sadly, it does an effective job in that.
 

Cael

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 19, 2006
Messages
13,304
Repudiating capitalism is like repudiating your native language -that is, an immensely difficult proposition.
Thats very well put, a chara. The very language we use is saturated with the capitalist mentality. To free ourselves of capitalism, we literally do have to learn a new language.
 

Twin Towers

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 14, 2005
Messages
5,803
And that was not the end of the Capitalist Holocaust in Haiti. In recent times, Haiti has been destroyed by the neo-liberal policies of the IMF, along with several US backed military coups. Is it any wonder that the people were literally eating dirt, even before the recent floods.
Haiti and the Dominican Republic share the same island. The latter winning its independence from Haiti in 1844. Dominicans have a per capita income of 8,200 dollars per year and Haitians a per capita income of 1,300 dollar per year. Why is DR so much wealthier than Haiti ?
 

Cassandra Syndrome

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 23, 2009
Messages
16,885
I would agree with Naomi Klein's Shock Doctrine and the assumption that Neo Liberalism has been cruel to the 3rd World. Free trade agreements have been cruel as well and should have been implemented over a 20 year period to allow indigenous producers engage in their own industrial revolution. Speaking of which look at this chart.

Notice as well the increase in 1000 to 1200 when during the High middle ages progress in free market economics occured before the sh*t hit the fan in 14th century with severe global cooling, government intervention, plagues and all sorts of nasty things. But look what happened since the first industrial revolution since the 18th century which brought an end to Feudalism and Mercantilism (no more fancy pants buildings by the elite while the peasants starve to death working in fields), which is rearing its ugly head again incrementally since the 1930s.

 

Cael

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 19, 2006
Messages
13,304
Haiti and the Dominican Republic share the same island. The latter winning its independence from Haiti in 1844. Dominicans have a per capita income of 8,200 dollars per year and Haitians a per capita income of 1,300 dollar per year. Why is DR so much wealthier than Haiti ?
Go on tell us. Because they are black?
 

splashy

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Messages
308
Haiti and the Dominican Republic share the same island. The latter winning its independence from Haiti in 1844. Dominicans have a per capita income of 8,200 dollars per year and Haitians a per capita income of 1,300 dollar per year. Why is DR so much wealthier than Haiti ?
This picture of the border between them suggests the answer might be the management of resources:


 

Ifor Bach

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
10,072
Website
golang.pl
Haiti and the Dominican Republic share the same island. The latter winning its independence from Haiti in 1844. Dominicans have a per capita income of 8,200 dollars per year and Haitians a per capita income of 1,300 dollar per year. Why is DR so much wealthier than Haiti ?
Go on tell us. Because they are black?
'Capitalism' is a trite, lazy and fatuous explanation for the problems of an individual nation, or the world generally.

It has as much intellectual coherence as blaming Joos, the English or giant shape-shifting reptiles.

It is little more than a slogan for simpletons.
 

Twin Towers

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 14, 2005
Messages
5,803
Go on tell us. Because they are black?
Eh, they share the same island and same history so where is your holocaust of capitalism?

One side has organized themselves into a holocaust of idleness, fecklessness, corruption and handouts and the other side has got on with it and organized themselves into a place to live and breathe.
 
Last edited:

Breadan O'Connor

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2007
Messages
1,242
People lived longer in the USSR than in Capitalist Russia today. Nobody can deny that.

The soviet welfare system fell asunder under Yeltsin and his "economic shock therapy".

Profitable industries were grabbed by "oligarchs".

As I pointed out earlier the level of excess mortality in Russia in the 1990s reached five to six million. In terms of numbers one might call it a holocaust.

The Legacy of Boris Yeltsin by Justin Raimondo -- Antiwar.com
 

Ifor Bach

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
10,072
Website
golang.pl
The soviet welfare system fell asunder under Yeltsin and his "economic shock therapy".

Profitable industries were grabbed by "oligarchs".

As I pointed out earlier the level of excess mortality in Russia in the 1990s reached five to six million. In terms of numbers one might call it a holocaust.

The Legacy of Boris Yeltsin by Justin Raimondo -- Antiwar.com
Alcoholism and cigarette consumption were two of the primary causes.

I doubt whether those Middle-Aged men who died suddenly took up these habits following the end of the Soviet Union.

The excess mortality was a legacy of 70 years of socialism. Currently, the situation is improving.

 

Cael

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 19, 2006
Messages
13,304
Eh, they share the same island and same history so where is your holocaust of capitalism?

One side has organized themselves into a holocaust of idleness, fecklessness, corruption and handouts and the other side has got on with it and organized themselves into a place to live and breathe.
Handouts? You must really have had your brain amptutated - though I doubt you were born with one. Did I not say in the OP that Haiti had given 80% pf its budget in hand outs to France until 1947. And the Dominican Republic is no paradise either - except for paedophiles, who flock to it to have sex with 12 year olds and younger. Thats the reality of capitalism.
 

Cael

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 19, 2006
Messages
13,304
The soviet welfare system fell asunder under Yeltsin and his "economic shock therapy".

Profitable industries were grabbed by "oligarchs".

As I pointed out earlier the level of excess mortality in Russia in the 1990s reached five to six million. In terms of numbers one might call it a holocaust.

The Legacy of Boris Yeltsin by Justin Raimondo -- Antiwar.com
Absolutely, a chara. In terms of numbers, it was a worse Holocaust that the Holocaust of the Jews. And it was presided over by genocidal vermin like Milton Friedman.
 

Ifor Bach

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
10,072
Website
golang.pl
Absolutely, a chara. In terms of numbers, it was a worse Holocaust that the Holocaust of the Jews. And it was presided over by genocidal vermin like Milton Friedman.
Cael, as ever the master and expert of fatuous slogans and hyperbolic nonsense.
 

conservative green

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
1,261
Now right-wingers will of course start talking about scarcity of resources, why don't they feed themselves, why should we care etc etc, yet the fact remains that all those who die do so because for them to remain alive is not profitable for capitalism, ie they are too poor to provide a market for capitalism and surplus to labour needs.
Not consistently pro-free market right wingers. The CAP in Europe, and similar policies in the US and Canada - in other words the policies that our farmers shriek for, and our governments do their bidding, for electoral reason - it's these policies that literally kill people, not capitalism per se. True capitalists want more free trade, and fewer barriers to trade. Abolish the CAP. Get rid of these government barriers to trade and let's have a true free market.

And this conclusion is a truly damning indictment of the current economic system.
Agreed here. It's an absolutely damning indictment of statism. African kids are literally dying to protect the incomes of wealthy first world farmers. It's a damning indictment of thirty years of the CAP. I say get rid of charity for first world farmers. Get rid of state subsidies. Let the African farmers have a fair deal.

In other words, the solution is more capitalism and not less.
 

Chi019

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 27, 2009
Messages
745
Haiti and the Dominican Republic share the same island. The latter winning its independence from Haiti in 1844. Dominicans have a per capita income of 8,200 dollars per year and Haitians a per capita income of 1,300 dollar per year. Why is DR so much wealthier than Haiti ?
If you look at a number of recent papers you'll see that a certain average level of cognitive ability is a necessary condition for economic development.

A large amount of studies published in the last two decades has shown that cognitive ability levels of societies are relevant for the development of positively valued aspects of peoples and countries. Following an economic research tradition “human capital” is relevant for economic growth and wealth (Hanushek & Kimko, 2000; Lynn & Vanhanen, 2002, 2006; Jones & Schneider, 2006; Weede, 2006; Rindermann, 2008a). In addition, cognitive ability of nations has a positive impact on political development, in that it helps building up democracy, the rule of law and political liberty (Simpson, 1997; Rindermann, 2008b). Intelligence, knowledge and the intelligent use of knowledge also have beneficial effects on health, for instance they act as a brake on the spread of HIV (Oesterdiekhoff & Rindermann, 2007; Lakhanpal & Ram, 2008; Rindermann & Meisenberg, 2009). Finally, cognitive competence is relevant for the development of modernity as a societal and especially as a cultural phenomenon consisting of education, autonomy, liberty, morality and rationality (Habermas, 1985/1981; Meisenberg, 2004; Oesterdiekhoff, 2008; Lynn, Harvey & Nyborg, 2009). Societies at a higher ability level develop more complex, more evidence-based, more ethical and more rational world views.
Talent Development & Excellence
Vol. 1, No. 1, 2009, 3-25 http://www.iratde.org/issues/1-2009/tde_issue_1-2009_03_rindermann_et_al.pdf

In respect to DR, the average score based on PISA results is 84, while in Haiti it is 72.

Also, as the Rindermann article notes having a 'smart fraction' is particularly important for economic and social development. In DR 16% of the population is of european ancestry (average 100), while there are around 50,000 of Chinese ancestry (average 105).
 
Last edited:


Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top