The Irish are great altogether - but are they greater outside Ireland than in it?

blokesbloke

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Might seem an odd thread topic but at work today I took a call from an older Irish lady who charmed me totally. She was what I would call proper old-school Irish - incredibly polite, very expressive in her use of words, I don't know, just a lovely lady altogether and she met every positive stereotype I have of the Irish exactly.

I find the Irish people I interact with in the UK to be, generally of course there are always exceptions, to be very polite when dealing with you in a professional capacity and very warm when dealing with you in a personal capacity.

I even had a police officer friend who commented that Irish men, especially older ones, were even very polite in the custody block when arrested, tending to say "Sir", "Officer" or indeed sometimes "Guard"!

Then I wondered, as I sit here in the afterglow of the lovely Irish lady I spoke to and was happily able to help (and wasn't she effusive in her thanks!) if this was true in Ireland.

I just mean - I read a lot on P.ie and yes I know it's a pretty glass-half-empty source, of the decline of traditional Irish values such as I mention above, and I wondered if the Irish in Britain and perhaps elsewhere are actually in a sense, more Irish than the Irish in the sense of fitting traditional Irish values?

Does living in another country, and perhaps having left Ireland when it was a different place, mean the Irish people I meet here are more recognisably "Irish" in an old-fashioned, positive sense I have of them?

Whereas perhaps people who live in Ireland as less like that?

It reminded me of a book I read about the Asian community in the UK where the author pointed out that a lot of older Asian people, and by extension their offspring whose main knowledge of the Old Country is from their older relatives, had unrealistic views of their homeland.

As they left India, Pakistan or Bangladesh in the 1950s or 1960s or whenever, their manners, ways and perceptions are frozen in time and they don't realise that many of the "Western" concepts they struggle with are now much more mainstream in their home country and would be shocked at some of the changes in India, Pakistan and Bangladesh - in effect, they are comparing the modern UK unfavourably with their birth country of the past, without realising many of the same attitudes and cultural changes they disapprove of in the UK have also, to an extent, happened at home.

The author really brought me up short with a rather poignant observation - that the older generation were pining for countries that effectively no longer existed.

(I have remembered the book was called Sari and Chips which was a light-hearted title for quite a serious book - worth a read).

What do Piesters think? Are there elderly Irish people in the UK who haven't travelled back much who are pining for an Ireland no longer there?

Would they be shocked if they went back to Ireland today?

Or would the proximity of Ireland mean they are more likely to have returned or at least kept up with news from back home?

Even so, do they maintain an older form of "Irishness" which Ireland itself has largely lost?
 
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GDPR

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Have you ever been to Ireland? I think you would hate Northern Ireland but I think the South you would really enjoy. Politics forums in any country generally attract people who are very psycho. I would not see P.ie as reflective of the ROI as such at all. This will annoy both the Lap Top Loyal and the hardcore Republicans here but people in the South are a lot more like the English than Ulster folk in good ways.
 

Stompy

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My old man was Irish and lived in England for many years, but he always missed Dublin, eventually my family moved to Ireland but my Dad was very disappointed in what he found and until he died always regretted moving back and missed England terribly.

He always said that the best had left and what was left was best exemplified by the likes of Bertie Ahearn, Jackie Healy Rae, Michael Lowry etc. who he despised immensely.

Although I have to say I love the place despite those f***ers
 

truthisfree

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"When the Irishman is found outside of Ireland in another environment, he very often becomes a respected man. The economic and intellectual conditions that prevail in his own country do not permit the development of individuality. No one who has any self-respect stays in Ireland, but flees afar as though from a country that has undergone the visitation of an angered Jove."


- James Joyce
 

Levellers

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I would suspect the majority of Irish people you meet in England are from lower income backgrounds and emigrated for work.

If you visited Ireland you would be shocked at the aggressive sense of entitlement of the moneyed classes or the Dublin Four crowd as we call them for shorthand.
 

The Field Marshal

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Firstly the Irish are not altogether, never have been.
Second when outside Ireland they are even less together than inside it.

Put that in yer pipe and smoke it.
 

Strawberry

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"When the Irishman is found outside of Ireland in another environment, he very often becomes a respected man. The economic and intellectual conditions that prevail in his own country do not permit the development of individuality. No one who has any self-respect stays in Ireland, but flees afar as though from a country that has undergone the visitation of an angered Jove."


- James Joyce
James Joyce spoke an awful lot of shíte.

Blokesbloke, I think you'd like Donegal. People here are still very polite, probably rural Ireland in general is, the cities not so much.
 

between the bridges

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James Joyce spoke an awful lot of shíte.

Blokesbloke, I think you'd like Donegal. People here are still very polite, probably rural Ireland in general is, the cities not so much.
Nah...

 

gleeful

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James Joyce spoke an awful lot of shíte.

Blokesbloke, I think you'd like Donegal. People here are still very polite, probably rural Ireland in general is, the cities not so much.
Fúck you. I'm from the city and I'm fúcking polite.
 

Bill

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that was just Mary from up the road shes fierce polite, the rest of us are cúnts
 

dizillusioned

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BB I suppose I am biased in that I have been working abroad for many many years. I still maintain very close ties with home and maintain a home there.

This may sound very "opinionated" but it is not meant to be.....

I find Irish people (as with many ex-pats and immigrants) fall into a couple of classes of people. Those that can move, those that were forced to move, those that did so legally and of course those that did so illegally.

For many who left by choice, you tend to find them settled and enjoying life. They are homesick (that is natural) and tend to fit in perfectly with their surroundings.

Those that were forced by economic situation (this is a generalisation) tend to be more homesick. Tend to work longer hours and (again a generalisation) work in non-professional jobs which means little time to enjoy their surroundings.

I find most Irish people you meet (here in the States) are polite and hardworking. I find they have not only education, but a drive to succeed. They are the new person in a country and have to impress with not only knowledge and ability but also getting the job done. This gets them into the social scene with colleagues and bosses and also (again a generalisation) makes them stand out when promotion etc. is around.

Having met quite a few Irish people all over the world, the one thing that DOES stand out is that Irish people are not only DOERS but thinkers (not tinkers) and problem solvers. You have to be able to sort a new life for yourself, hence you cannot be frightened of doing things for yourself or finding out information.

I do find that where I am there are only 4 other Irish (genuine Irish) people. They view a new arrival as something odd and view you with suspicion. With Americans I get on really well (as I have done in other countries), language is obviously a great advantage but also your accent here gets you noticed and commented upon. It is a great ice-breaker.
 
D

Deleted member 48908

BB I suppose I am biased in that I have been working abroad for many many years. I still maintain very close ties with home and maintain a home there.

This may sound very "opinionated" but it is not meant to be.....

I find Irish people (as with many ex-pats and immigrants) fall into a couple of classes of people. Those that can move, those that were forced to move, those that did so legally and of course those that did so illegally.

For many who left by choice, you tend to find them settled and enjoying life. They are homesick (that is natural) and tend to fit in perfectly with their surroundings.

Those that were forced by economic situation (this is a generalisation) tend to be more homesick. Tend to work longer hours and (again a generalisation) work in non-professional jobs which means little time to enjoy their surroundings.

I find most Irish people you meet (here in the States) are polite and hardworking. I find they have not only education, but a drive to succeed. They are the new person in a country and have to impress with not only knowledge and ability but also getting the job done. This gets them into the social scene with colleagues and bosses and also (again a generalisation) makes them stand out when promotion etc. is around.

Having met quite a few Irish people all over the world, the one thing that DOES stand out is that Irish people are not only DOERS but thinkers (not tinkers) and problem solvers. You have to be able to sort a new life for yourself, hence you cannot be frightened of doing things for yourself or finding out information.

I do find that where I am there are only 4 other Irish (genuine Irish) people. They view a new arrival as something odd and view you with suspicion. With Americans I get on really well (as I have done in other countries), language is obviously a great advantage but also your accent here gets you noticed and commented upon. It is a great ice-breaker.
tl;dr

There's nothing quite so magnificent as an Irishman abroad.
 

NYCKY

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Might seem an odd thread topic but at work today I took a call from an older Irish lady who charmed me totally. She was what I would call proper old-school Irish - incredibly polite, very expressive in her use of words, I don't know, just a lovely lady altogether and she met every positive stereotype I have of the Irish exactly.

I
So were you able to answer all Joan Burtons questions?
 

amist4

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I am always pleasantly surprised that the identity politics sociopaths haven't turned all the ladies into snarling pigs when you hold a door open for them or offer a well intentioned compliment. So far.
 

freewillie

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I am always pleasantly surprised that the identity politics sociopaths haven't turned all the ladies into snarling pigs when you hold a door open for them or offer a well intentioned compliment. So far.
Just tell them you are opening the door because of their age not their gender.
That generally will make their day
 

freewillie

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I would suspect the majority of Irish people you meet in England are from lower income backgrounds and emigrated for work.

If you visited Ireland you would be shocked at the aggressive sense of entitlement of the moneyed classes or the Dublin Four crowd as we call them for shorthand.
Well faith and begorr aren't you the great man for assumptions
 

derryman

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Well speaking for myself. And having lived abroad and still visiting overseas I am all sweetness and light at home and away. Well until I get annoyed.
 


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