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The Irish: Begrudging Bastards.


R3volution_R3ady

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Sep 17, 2012
Messages
2,370
“In the US, you look at the guy that lives in the mansion on the hill, and you think, ‘you know, one day, if I work really hard, I could live in that mansion’. In Ireland, people look up at the guy in the mansion on the hill and go, ‘one day, I’m going to get that bastard’.” - Bono.

Lonely Planet has described begrudgery as Irelands “national sport”. I just wanted to get peoples views on this in our country and whether or not it's warranted. From my experience, I've come across quite a lot of it. I'm the only one I know in my age bracket that owns their own home which I let out from time to time when I'm not in Ireland. I purposefully and intentionally go out of my way to avoid paying taxes at every turn so that I can somehow help provide some dignity to a homeless guy by giving him a job to do.

I've noticed in, not least the United States, that there is a great work ethic. Something ingrained in the people that hard work and intelligence is to be rewarded, commended, applauded. If you're ambitious, motivated, driven-to-succeed then you're given a pat on the back, supported, encouraged, something to be mirrored. In Ireland, you're a target. You're not supposed to have anything they don't have. At times, I feel that I relate more to Americans than I do to Ireland culturally. A couple of months ago I had the misfortune of witnessing a couple of public school kids jeering a privately educated child as he exited the gates. For the life of me I don't know why but I could obviously sense that they knew he was somehow "different".

But as my grandmother used to say "Fuck the begrudgers!".
 

james5001

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Joined
Oct 27, 2009
Messages
11,503
''You have the American dream! The American dream is to be born in the gutter and have nothing. Then to raise up and have all the money in the world, and stick it in your ears and go PLBTLBTLBLTLBTLBLT!! That's a pretty good dream. ''

Eddie Izzard.
 

james5001

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Joined
Oct 27, 2009
Messages
11,503
If you're ambitious, motivated, driven-to-succeed then you're given a pat on the back, supported, encouraged, something to be mirrored. In Ireland, you're a target. You're not supposed to have anything they don't have. At times, I feel that I relate more to Americans than I do to Ireland culturally. A couple of months ago I had the misfortune of witnessing a couple of public school kids jeering a privately educated child as he exited the gates. For the life of me I don't know why but I could obviously sense that they knew he was somehow "different".

But as my grandmother used to say "Fuck the begrudgers!".

Not if you're poor. Social mobility is much worse in America. Here, you can nearly do any course or degree you want, as long as you put effort into getting it.
 

ProfCalculus

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Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
513
“In the US, you look at the guy that lives in the mansion on the hill, and you think, ‘you know, one day, if I work really hard, I could live in that mansion’. In Ireland, people look up at the guy in the mansion on the hill and go, ‘one day, I’m going to get that bastard’.” - Bono.

Lonely Planet has described begrudgery as Irelands “national sport”. I just wanted to get peoples views on this in our country and whether or not it's warranted. From my experience, I've come across quite a lot of it. I'm the only one I know in my age bracket that owns their own home which I let out from time to time when I'm not in Ireland. I purposefully and intentionally go out of my way to avoid paying taxes at every turn so that I can somehow help provide some dignity to a homeless guy by giving him a job to do.

I've noticed in, not least the United States, that there is a great work ethic. Something ingrained in the people that hard work and intelligence is to be rewarded, commended, applauded. If you're ambitious, motivated, driven-to-succeed then you're given a pat on the back, supported, encouraged, something to be mirrored. In Ireland, you're a target. You're not supposed to have anything they don't have. At times, I feel that I relate more to Americans than I do to Ireland culturally. A couple of months ago I had the misfortune of witnessing a couple of public school kids jeering a privately educated child as he exited the gates. For the life of me I don't know why but I could obviously sense that they knew he was somehow "different".

But as my grandmother used to say "Fuck the begrudgers!".
The chardonnay going down well?
 

L'Chaim

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Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
18,967
Not often I would agree with Bono, but he is dead right in his observation. Begrudgery here is like a cancer. It's nasty and vile. Though on the other hand we have people who get elected, get jobs etc. because of their family name. This is an even worse cancer in Irish life and people will go out and elect someone just because their father, brother, husband etc. died and they are somehow allowed to take over the seat. Now when others object to those people 'inheriting' those positions they wouldn't be begrudgers really. Like me, they would be angry.
 

Tin Foil Hat

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Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
2,900
They've got it all wrong. Our national sport is self loathing.
This is how it works. You take a perfectly common human or corporate trait - laziness, over indulgence, jealousy, overcharging - you exaggerate how much the Irish do it, downplay how much everyone else does it, and tell anyone who will listen that Ireland is the worst place in the world.
 
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gloria

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Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
1,621
I suppose luck and a privileged start has nothing to do with anything?
I know lots of people who work an awful lot harder than bonio, at harder jobs for longer hours and not much reward.
Oh, and they don't have the wealth, opportunity or inclination to tax-dodge.
Regular people like.. the ones that serve you and make your life easy.
Ahh.. I know.. I'm begrudging you of your fantasy life.
 

NYCKY

Moderator
Joined
Apr 17, 2010
Messages
13,101
“In the US, you look at the guy that lives in the mansion on the hill, and you think, ‘you know, one day, if I work really hard, I could live in that mansion’. In Ireland, people look up at the guy in the mansion on the hill and go, ‘one day, I’m going to get that bastard’.” - Bono.

Lonely Planet has described begrudgery as Irelands “national sport”. I just wanted to get peoples views on this in our country and whether or not it's warranted. From my experience, I've come across quite a lot of it. I'm the only one I know in my age bracket that owns their own home which I let out from time to time when I'm not in Ireland. I purposefully and intentionally go out of my way to avoid paying taxes at every turn so that I can somehow help provide some dignity to a homeless guy by giving him a job to do.

I've noticed in, not least the United States, that there is a great work ethic. Something ingrained in the people that hard work and intelligence is to be rewarded, commended, applauded. If you're ambitious, motivated, driven-to-succeed then you're given a pat on the back, supported, encouraged, something to be mirrored. In Ireland, you're a target. You're not supposed to have anything they don't have. At times, I feel that I relate more to Americans than I do to Ireland culturally. A couple of months ago I had the misfortune of witnessing a couple of public school kids jeering a privately educated child as he exited the gates. For the life of me I don't know why but I could obviously sense that they knew he was somehow "different".

But as my grandmother used to say "Fuck the begrudgers!".

RR you are spot on. I have said this before on this site that begrudgery is an innate Irish characteristic and is worse than ever with the death of the Celtic tiger.

Irish people have a tendency to begrudge any bit of success that others have. I've often heard comments like, "I heard he won the Lotto", "ah sure it's easy for him to have a big house like that, he hasn't paid taxes for years", "he/she gets all their staff as trainees from FAS and never pay them" etc.

Of course the same people will wallow in and gloat over others failures. "He should have minded the first restaurant instead of opening a second one".

It's rather grim and depressing and in fairness you can read a lot of it on this site too.
 

james5001

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Joined
Oct 27, 2009
Messages
11,503
I think people are mixing up begrudgery with Christian values, such as as living simple, meaningful lives.
 

Half Nelson

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Joined
Dec 12, 2009
Messages
21,718
In America, failure and bankruptcy are viewed as part of the learning curve and are not punished with years of imposed hardship, with the result that entrepreneurs are more common and more willing to take risks.

In Ireland, our small-minded politicians bend the knee for their masters in the banks and help them turn the screws on any unlucky entrepreneur or investor.

Sean Dunne is correct.
 

GDPR

1
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
224,093
RR you are spot on. I have said this before on this site that begrudgery is an innate Irish characteristic and is worse than ever with the death of the Celtic tiger.

Irish people have a tendency to begrudge any bit of success that others have. I've often heard comments like, "I heard he won the Lotto", "ah sure it's easy for him to have a big house like that, he hasn't paid taxes for years", "he/she gets all their staff as trainees from FAS and never pay them" etc.

Of course the same people will wallow in and gloat over others failures. "He should have minded the first restaurant instead of opening a second one".

It's rather grim and depressing and in fairness you can read a lot of it on this site too.
For a few centuries the "guy who lived in the mansion on the hill" was a Brit invader and the native Irish were his serfs with no chance of upward social mobility.

Could the begrudgery be a legacy of years of oppression? If so, time for the Irish to snap out of it, and know anyone Irish person can aspire to live in a mansion.
 

pragmaticapproach

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Joined
Jul 21, 2010
Messages
8,817
“In the US, you look at the guy that lives in the mansion on the hill, and you think, ‘you know, one day, if I work really hard, I could live in that mansion’. In Ireland, people look up at the guy in the mansion on the hill and go, ‘one day, I’m going to get that bastard’.” - Bono.

Lonely Planet has described begrudgery as Irelands “national sport”. I just wanted to get peoples views on this in our country and whether or not it's warranted. From my experience, I've come across quite a lot of it. I'm the only one I know in my age bracket that owns their own home which I let out from time to time when I'm not in Ireland. I purposefully and intentionally go out of my way to avoid paying taxes at every turn so that I can somehow help provide some dignity to a homeless guy by giving him a job to do.

I've noticed in, not least the United States, that there is a great work ethic. Something ingrained in the people that hard work and intelligence is to be rewarded, commended, applauded. If you're ambitious, motivated, driven-to-succeed then you're given a pat on the back, supported, encouraged, something to be mirrored. In Ireland, you're a target. You're not supposed to have anything they don't have. At times, I feel that I relate more to Americans than I do to Ireland culturally. A couple of months ago I had the misfortune of witnessing a couple of public school kids jeering a privately educated child as he exited the gates. For the life of me I don't know why but I could obviously sense that they knew he was somehow "different".

But as my grandmother used to say "Fuck the begrudgers!".
Im all for fostering a culture that rewards success, but the United states is populated by a disproportionate number of neurotic loud mouths who are taken in by the most tacky of fads.

They have never developed an authentic, common identity so instead cling on to these pop culture genres, hence the hollow consumerism. The United states is a Judaised, cultureless sh1thole.

To quote Julius Evola(note he was talking about how americanisation affected his native Italy, around the 1950s)

Americanization in Europe is widespread and evident. In Italy it is a phenomenon which is rapidly developing in these post-war years and is considered by most people, if not enthusiastically, at least as something natural. Some time ago I wrote that of the two great dangers confronting Europe - Americanism and Communism - the first is the more insidious. Communism cannot be a danger other than in the brutal and catastrophic form of a direct seizure of power by communists. On the other hand Americanization gains ground by a process of gradual infiltration, effecting modifications of mentalities and customs which seem inoffensive in themselves but which end in a fundamental perversion and degradation against which it is impossible to fight other than within oneself.
and

The United States represents the reductio ad absurdum of the negative and the most senile aspects of Western civilization. What in Europe exist in diluted form are magnified and concentrated in the United States whereby they are revealed as the symptoms of disintegration and cultural and human regression. The American mentality can only be interpreted as an example of regression, which shows itself in the mental atrophy towards all higher interests and incomprehension of higher sensibility. The American mind has limited horizons, one conscribed to everything which is immediate and simplistic, with the inevitable consequence that everything is made banal, basic and leveled down until it is deprived of all spiritual life. Life itself in American terms is entirely mechanistic. The sense of I in America belongs entirely to the physical level of existence. The typical American neither has spiritual dilemmas nor complications: he is a natural joiner and conformist.
 
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james5001

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Messages
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In America, failure and bankruptcy are viewed as part of the learning curve and are not punished with years of imposed hardship, with the result that entrepreneurs are more common and more willing to take risks.

In Ireland, our small-minded politicians bend the knee for their masters in the banks and help them turn the screws on any unlucky entrepreneur or investor.

Sean Dunne is correct.
Exactly, just like here, their failure is rewarded with massive bailouts.
 

james5001

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Joined
Oct 27, 2009
Messages
11,503
Could the begrudgery be a legacy of years of oppression? If so, time for the Irish to snap out of it, and know anyone Irish person can aspire to live in a mansion.
Because that's what we should aim for in life. To live in a mansion.
 

Dame_Enda

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Joined
Dec 14, 2011
Messages
52,059
The Tribunals have destroyed trust in the wealthy elite.

I am a capitalist but I have no time for the kind of crony capitalism sometimes practiced by the elite in league with politicians on the make.

I have no problem with rich people who earned their income honestly though, unless that is they are getting special treatment e.g. penalty points docked because of their status, allowed to monopolise media ownership etc.
 

Hitch 22

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Dec 26, 2011
Messages
5,220
If you are the star player on Ballybollock hurling team you will be a local hero.

If you win an Olympic medal your face will be splashed across the international and national news but you won't get a mention in the Ballybollock parish annual newsletter.
 

R3volution_R3ady

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GDPR

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For a few centuries the "guy who lived in the mansion on the hill" was a Brit invader and the native Irish were his serfs with no chance of upward social mobility.

Could the begrudgery be a legacy of years of oppression? If so, time for the Irish to snap out of it, and know anyone Irish person can aspire to live in a mansion.
Because that's what we should aim for in life. To live in a mansion.
If you want to :). A big house is too much work.
 

NYCKY

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Because that's what we should aim for in life. To live in a mansion.
I think you are missing the point. The idea is that Irish people shouldn't fear, be embarrassed or be ashamed to be successful.
 
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