The Irish Constitution and secession

Breanainn

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Given current events in Spain, what does Bunreacht na hÉireann state should the unlikely event of a regional separatist party gaining widespread support here come to pass? No article actually mentions secession, with Article Two now defined in relation to citizenry, rather than geography, and Article 15.2.2 allowing for federalism through "the creation or recognition of subordinate legislatures". Article 9.2 does require "fidelity and loyalty" to the state, but it would seem that a county were to be intent on independence, nothing would prevent a local plebiscite, though automatic expulsion from the EU would presumably prove a deterrent.
 


The Herren

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Given current events in Spain, what does Bunreacht na hÉireann state should the unlikely event of a regional separatist party gaining widespread support here come to pass? No article actually mentions secession, with Article Two now defined in relation to citizenry, rather than geography, and Article 15.2.2 allowing for federalism through "the creation or recognition of subordinate legislatures". Article 9.2 does require "fidelity and loyalty" to the state, but it would seem that a county were to be intent on independence, nothing would prevent a local plebiscite, though automatic expulsion from the EU would presumably prove a deterrent.
What are you trying to say? Are you saying that if Co. Cork, for instance wanted to secede from the 26 it is entitled to hold a plebiscite? Is that it? Even if you are correct that they can hold a plebiscite does it follow that it can then secede under the terms of the constitution. And forget about the EU. That has no bearing on our Constitution- you are only scratching around trying to make a worthy subject out of nothing.

Go away
 

gleeful

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Seccession is rarely constitutional. I cant actually think of a single historical example. Czechoslovakia maybe?
 

Congalltee

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Does Spain and Hungary recognise Kosovo yet? We did after a week of theyr secession from Serbia, just as Russia was an early recogniser of Irish independence. Kexit or Uncorked will probably not make it as slogans but Donegal will be connected to the EU by a thin sliver of Leitrim - we need to watch out for Doneegone.
 

raetsel

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Given current events in Spain, what does Bunreacht na hÉireann state should the unlikely event of a regional separatist party gaining widespread support here come to pass? No article actually mentions secession, with Article Two now defined in relation to citizenry, rather than geography, and Article 15.2.2 allowing for federalism through "the creation or recognition of subordinate legislatures". Article 9.2 does require "fidelity and loyalty" to the state, but it would seem that a county were to be intent on independence, nothing would prevent a local plebiscite, though automatic expulsion from the EU would presumably prove a deterrent.
Don't you have any hobbies that would occupy your time better? :)
 

RadicalJacobin

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Given current events in Spain, what does Bunreacht na hÉireann state should the unlikely event of a regional separatist party gaining widespread support here come to pass? No article actually mentions secession, with Article Two now defined in relation to citizenry, rather than geography, and Article 15.2.2 allowing for federalism through "the creation or recognition of subordinate legislatures". Article 9.2 does require "fidelity and loyalty" to the state, but it would seem that a county were to be intent on independence, nothing would prevent a local plebiscite, though automatic expulsion from the EU would presumably prove a deterrent.
Surely it would be in conflict with article 2 or potentially the Offences Against the State Act 1939 in terms of usurpation of government. Although given that the situation of the Catalans and the Corkonians are entirely different I'm sure its not really an issue.
 

Ardillaun

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Seccession is rarely constitutional. I cant actually think of a single historical example. Czechoslovakia maybe?
Canada was willing to consider it and Britain offered a clear question for Scotland to vote on. That's what grown-up countries should do.
 

Deadlock

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Does Spain and Hungary recognise Kosovo yet? We did after a week of theyr secession from Serbia, just as Russia was an early recogniser of Irish independence. Kexit or Uncorked will probably not make it as slogans but Donegal will be connected to the EU by a thin sliver of Leitrim - we need to watch out for Doneegone.
Is Kexit Kerry, Kilkenny or Kildare exit? If all three went would that be KKKexit?

Uncorked is just brilliant - loving that one! As is Donegone! Smiling like a loon here - thanks
 

blinding

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If Dublin win the All-Ireland they will have to be pushed out......

How do we do that........
 

McTell

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No
OP

//

Article 15.2.2 allowing for federalism through "the creation or recognition of subordinate legislatures". Article 9.2 does require "fidelity and loyalty" to the state, //.

Wouldn't it be grand if the udaras na gaeltacht area went its own way... and the 6 counties.

15.2.2 was designed to cover stormont in the 32 counties, as it would be easier for them to discuss in their own language, and then come down to Dev with a list of requests and gifts on bended knee....


Dev's little-known and never-mentioned view of the 6 counties in 1921 was continuing in 1937, with no time limits....

In 1921:

That whilst refusing to admit the right of any part of Ireland to be excluded from the supreme authority of the Parliament of Ireland, or that the relations between the Parliament of Ireland and any subordinate legislature in Ireland can be a matter for treaty with a Government outside Ireland, nevertheless, in sincere regard for internal peace, and in order to make manifest our desire not to bring force or coercion to bear upon any substantial part of the province of Ulster, whose inhabitants may now be unwilling to accept the national authority, we are prepared to grant to that portion of Ulster which is defined as Northern Ireland in the British Government of Ireland Act of 1920, privileges and safeguards not less substantial than those provided for in the 'Articles of Agreement for a Treaty' between Great Britain and Ireland signed in London on 6 December 1921.
 

Fr Peter McWhinger

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Given current events in Spain, what does Bunreacht na hÉireann state should the unlikely event of a regional separatist party gaining widespread support here come to pass? No article actually mentions secession, with Article Two now defined in relation to citizenry, rather than geography, and Article 15.2.2 allowing for federalism through "the creation or recognition of subordinate legislatures". Article 9.2 does require "fidelity and loyalty" to the state, but it would seem that a county were to be intent on independence, nothing would prevent a local plebiscite, though automatic expulsion from the EU would presumably prove a deterrent.

Could a mere village, townland or small Island secede?
 

Roberto Jordan

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Could a mere village, townland or small Island secede?
We've a 2 acre field with road frontage, a well in one corner, plenty rock , can yireld hay /low grade fodder , dyke that drains into seas and shoreline on the atlantic that would make a wonderful little republic
 

Windowshopper

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Secession clauses are usually used in constitutions in countries were selef determinations exist and have a degree of popular support. The real question we should be asking is if the Catalans vote for independence should the government recognise them despite the Spanish. The answer is yes.
 

Ardillaun

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True. Neither event happened though
That's the way forward, though. Countries, like companies, are not eternal. There is nothing sacred about them and such talk is dangerous. They are temporary arrangements that exist to benefit their inhabitants, and they should be changed when they have outlived their usefulness.
 
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