• It has come to our attention that some users may have been "banned" when they tried to change their passwords after the site was hacked due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software. This would have occurred around the end of February and does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you believe you were affected by this, please contact a staff member or use the Contact us link at the bottom of any forum page.

The Irish Holocaust , historys largest cover up?


st333ve

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 18, 2006
Messages
2,104
The Times editorial of September 30, 1845, warned; "In England the two main meals of a working man's day now consists of potatoes." England's potato-dependence was excessive; reckless.
Grossly over-populated relative to its food supply, England faced famine unless it could import vast amounts of alternative food.
But it didn't grab merely Ireland's surplus food; or enough Irish food to save England. It took more; for profit and to exterminate the people of Ireland. Queen Victoria's economist, Nassau Senior, expressed his fear that existing policies "will not kill more than one million Irish in 1848 and that will scarcely be enough to do much good."
When an eye-witness urged a stop to the genocide-in-progress, Trevelyan replied: "We must not complain of what we really want to obtain.
" Trevelyan insisted that all reports of starvation were exaggerated, until 1847. He then declared it ended and refused entry to the American food relief ship SorciƩre. Thomas Carlyle; influential British essayist, wrote; "Ireland is like a half-starved rat that crosses the path of an elephant. What must the elephant do? Squelch it - by heavens - squelch it." "Total Annihilation;" suggested The Times leader of September 2, 1846; and in 1848 its editorialists crowed
"A Celt will soon be as rare on the banks of the Shannon as the red man on the banks of Manhattan."
The immortal Society of Friends, the "Quakers," did all in their power to save lives. But in 1847 they despaired and quit, upon learning that the Crown planned to perpetuate the genocide's pretext; the British claim of "ownership" of Irish land. Quakers refused to facilitate the genocide by pretending (as Concern does re African genocides) it was an act of nature.


There were many "Voices in the Wilderness" risking all to stop the genocide. For example; Wexford-born Jane Wilde, mother of Oscar and poetess, wrote under the nom de plume "Speranza," in the United Irishman newspaper the following (verses 1 and 6 printed here) during the depths of 1847 re the British genocidists and the innocents they were exterminating

THE FAMINE YEAR

Weary men, what reap ye? "Golden corn for the Stranger."
What sow ye? "Human corpses that await for the Avenger."
Fainting forms, all hunger-stricken, what see you in the offing?
"Stately ships to bear our food away amid the stranger's scoffing."
There's a proud array of soldiers what do they round your door?
"They guard our masters' granaries from the thin hands of the poor."
Pale mothers, wherefore weeping? "Would to God that we were dead"
Our children swoon before us, and we cannot give them bread!"

"We are wretches, famished, scorned, human tools to build your pride,
But God will yet take vengeance for the souls for whom Christ died.
Now is your hour of pleasure, bask ye in the world's caress;
But our whitening bones against ye will arise as witnesses,
From the cabins and the ditches, in their charred, uncoffined masses,
For the Angel of the Trumpet will know them as he passes.
A ghastly, spectral army before God we'll stand
And arraign ye as our murderers, O spoilers of our land!"


Its 2007 and people still believe that potatoes a crop not native to Ireland was the reason so many people died in a rich luscious agricultural and ideal country for crop growth and food.

Its ridiculous, the world still mocks the irish today for their "spud famine"
The Irish government shows complete disregard for this event and to let this potato nonsence go on any longer is pissing on the graves of so many who perished.

Is our national history important, or worth covering up?

**edit

Oops forgot to put in a link..

http://www.irishholocaust.org/tollofholocaust
 

White Horse

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 13, 2006
Messages
7,064
st333ve said:
The Irish government shows complete disregard for this event and to let this potato nonsence go on any longer is pissing on the graves of so many who perished.

Is our national history important, or worth covering up?
The Famine merits greater remembrance in Ireland. It was the turning point that showed Irish people that the Union couldn't work for them and self-government was a necessity.

I would welcome greater awareness of the Famine and would hope that it would not be used as a means by certain individuals to promote their anti-Britishness.
 

meriwether

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 1, 2004
Messages
12,604
White Horse said:
st333ve said:
The Irish government shows complete disregard for this event and to let this potato nonsence go on any longer is pissing on the graves of so many who perished.

Is our national history important, or worth covering up?
The Famine merits greater remembrance in Ireland. It was the turning point that showed Irish people that the Union couldn't work for them and self-government was a necessity.

I would welcome greater awareness of the Famine and would hope that it would not be used as a means by certain individuals to promote their anti-Britishness.
It should be used as a vehicle to promote pro-potatoe sentiment.
 

Aindriu

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 28, 2007
Messages
8,702
White Horse said:
st333ve said:
The Irish government shows complete disregard for this event and to let this potato nonsence go on any longer is pissing on the graves of so many who perished.

Is our national history important, or worth covering up?
The Famine merits greater remembrance in Ireland. It was the turning point that showed Irish people that the Union couldn't work for them and self-government was a necessity.

I would welcome greater awareness of the Famine and would hope that it would not be used as a means by certain individuals to promote their anti-Britishness.[/quote]

Indeed. It would hardly be very fair for people to vent their spleen towards Britain now for something that occurred over 160 years ago. Nor was it the fault of ordinary English people then or now. Having said that, I fear it won't stop some on here for doing just that.
 

Eirenua

Active member
Joined
Jan 7, 2007
Messages
280
Read " The Great Hunger" Woodham-Smith, Cecil. A well documented and researched book. The approach by the British to the Famine was disgraceful. The main culprits were Trevelyan, Routh & Lord John Russell and the heartless Irish landlords. The British adopted a laissez faire view and in 1848 Trevelyn wrote in a letter to Routh " Ireland is on her own,we can do no more for her, let the Famine take it's natural course". Yes it was Genocide.
 

zakalwe

Active member
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
171
they didn't adopt a laissez faire attitude because we were irish, that was the attidude of all govts of the day. no govt had a social welfare policy in the 1850s. the govts role in the day, pretty much was to administer justice (brutally the world over) and maintain an army/navy.
 

PAUL MEYER

Member
Joined
May 14, 2005
Messages
48
Eirenua said:
Read " The Great Hunger" Woodham-Smith, Cecil. A well documented and researched book. The approach by the British to the Famine was disgraceful. The main culprits were Trevelyan, Routh & Lord John Russell and the heartless Irish landlords. The British adopted a laissez faire view and in 1848 Trevelyn wrote in a letter to Routh " Ireland is on her own,we can do no more for her, let the Famine take it's natural course". Yes it was Genocide.
It's a very long time indeed since I read that book but I don't remember the author ( or indeed, any serious historian, then or now) concluding that the Famine was an act of genocide. If I remember correctly, Woodham-Smith said that although the authorities had been callous and hardhearted in the extreme in their handling of it, it was difficult to see what else they coulld have done given the times and the circumstances ?.
 

Aindriu

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 28, 2007
Messages
8,702
This is quite a good site.
 

Edo

Well-known member
Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
3,052
zakalwe said:
they didn't adopt a laissez faire attitude because we were irish, that was the attidude of all govts of the day. no govt had a social welfare policy in the 1850s. the govts role in the day, pretty much was to administer justice (brutally the world over) and maintain an army/navy.
Agreed - Karl Marx was only getting around to writing his ideas at this time so you simply cannot look back with modern values in mind.

The famine was a tragedy - an socio-economic tragedy - it wasnt the first - there were at least 4 - 5 similar "famines" here in the 70 years leading up to the Great famine - it was the final nail in the coffin of subsistence farming depending on one crop and it primarily effected those areas where the soil was poorest and the land had been so divided and divided and the pop had so multiplied and still stayed on the land - yes our obssession with the land is nothing new - the same thing happened in Eastern Europe ,scandanavia and southern Europe in the latter part of the 19th century so our experience is not at all unique - but every culture ,particularly a marthyr self pitying culture like our own ,imagines their suffering to be unique and unparalleled.

Of course it could and should be said the British economic policy did not help matters - then again we never really helped ourselves either - something that is still with us down to this day.

It was a massive tragedy and it seared itself onto our national consience and its outcome laid the foundation for the state we live in today. - A great tragedy - but as hard as it will be for the great many posters here who suffer from CBHD (Compulsive Brit Hating Disorder) - it was not genocide and certainly not a holocaust - to admit so would be a gross insult to those have perished in such monstrosities , ie the Jews, Armenians and Rwandans etc etc.
 

NotDevsSon

Active member
Joined
Nov 25, 2007
Messages
174
Edo said:
zakalwe said:
they didn't adopt a laissez faire attitude because we were irish, that was the attidude of all govts of the day. no govt had a social welfare policy in the 1850s. the govts role in the day, pretty much was to administer justice (brutally the world over) and maintain an army/navy.
Agreed - Karl Marx was only getting around to writing his ideas at this time so you simply cannot look back with modern values in mind.

The famine was a tragedy - an socio-economic tragedy - it wasnt the first - there were at least 4 - 5 similar "famines" here in the 70 years leading up to the Great famine - it was the final nail in the coffin of subsistence farming depending on one crop and it primarily effected those areas where the soil was poorest and the land had been so divided and divided and the pop had so multiplied and still stayed on the land - yes our obssession with the land is nothing new - the same thing happened in Eastern Europe ,scandanavia and southern Europe in the latter part of the 19th century so our experience is not at all unique - but every culture ,particularly a marthyr self pitying culture like our own ,imagines their suffering to be unique and unparalleled.

Of course it could and should be said the British economic policy did not help matters - then again we never really helped ourselves either - something that is still with us down to this day.

It was a massive tragedy and it seared itself onto our national consience and its outcome laid the foundation for the state we live in today. - A great tragedy - but as hard as it will be for the great many posters here who suffer from CBHD (Compulsive Brit Hating Disorder) - it was not genocide and certainly not a holocaust - to admit so would be a gross insult to those have perished in such monstrosities , ie the Jews, Armenians and Rwandans etc etc.
Hear hear. A sane voice who knows their history on this ridiculous thread.
 

Aindriu

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 28, 2007
Messages
8,702
Edo said:
zakalwe said:
they didn't adopt a laissez faire attitude because we were irish, that was the attidude of all govts of the day. no govt had a social welfare policy in the 1850s. the govts role in the day, pretty much was to administer justice (brutally the world over) and maintain an army/navy.
Agreed - Karl Marx was only getting around to writing his ideas at this time so you simply cannot look back with modern values in mind.

The famine was a tragedy - an socio-economic tragedy - it wasnt the first - there were at least 4 - 5 similar "famines" here in the 70 years leading up to the Great famine - it was the final nail in the coffin of subsistence farming depending on one crop and it primarily effected those areas where the soil was poorest and the land had been so divided and divided and the pop had so multiplied and still stayed on the land - yes our obssession with the land is nothing new - the same thing happened in Eastern Europe ,scandanavia and southern Europe in the latter part of the 19th century so our experience is not at all unique - but every culture ,particularly a marthyr self pitying culture like our own ,imagines their suffering to be unique and unparalleled.

Of course it could and should be said the British economic policy did not help matters - then again we never really helped ourselves either - something that is still with us down to this day.

It was a massive tragedy and it seared itself onto our national consience and its outcome laid the foundation for the state we live in today. - A great tragedy - but as hard as it will be for the great many posters here who suffer from CBHD (Compulsive Brit Hating Disorder) - it was not genocide and certainly not a holocaust - to admit so would be a gross insult to those have perished in such monstrosities , ie the Jews, Armenians and Rwandans etc etc.
Good post.
 

joel

Well-known member
Joined
May 3, 2007
Messages
810
PAUL MEYER said:
Eirenua said:
Read " The Great Hunger" Woodham-Smith, Cecil. A well documented and researched book. The approach by the British to the Famine was disgraceful. The main culprits were Trevelyan, Routh & Lord John Russell and the heartless Irish landlords. The British adopted a laissez faire view and in 1848 Trevelyn wrote in a letter to Routh " Ireland is on her own,we can do no more for her, let the Famine take it's natural course". Yes it was Genocide.
It's a very long time indeed since I read that book but I don't remember the author ( or indeed, any serious historian, then or now) concluding that the Famine was an act of genocide. If I remember correctly, Woodham-Smith said that although the authorities had been callous and hardhearted in the extreme in their handling of it, it was difficult to see what else they coulld have done given the times and the circumstances ?.


Could they have let the Irish keep their food? Could they have let the relief ships in?
 

Aindriu

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 28, 2007
Messages
8,702
joel said:
PAUL MEYER said:
Eirenua said:
Read " The Great Hunger" Woodham-Smith, Cecil. A well documented and researched book. The approach by the British to the Famine was disgraceful. The main culprits were Trevelyan, Routh & Lord John Russell and the heartless Irish landlords. The British adopted a laissez faire view and in 1848 Trevelyn wrote in a letter to Routh " Ireland is on her own,we can do no more for her, let the Famine take it's natural course". Yes it was Genocide.
It's a very long time indeed since I read that book but I don't remember the author ( or indeed, any serious historian, then or now) concluding that the Famine was an act of genocide. If I remember correctly, Woodham-Smith said that although the authorities had been callous and hardhearted in the extreme in their handling of it, it was difficult to see what else they coulld have done given the times and the circumstances ?.


Could they have let the Irish keep their food? Could they have let the relief ships in?
The food wasn't the Irish peoples to keep. They didn't own the farms. That is like saying that Superquinn should feed us all for nowt!

Relief ships were let in but the distribution was handled badly.
 

joel

Well-known member
Joined
May 3, 2007
Messages
810
Aindriu said:
joel said:
PAUL MEYER said:
Eirenua said:
Read " The Great Hunger" Woodham-Smith, Cecil. A well documented and researched book. The approach by the British to the Famine was disgraceful. The main culprits were Trevelyan, Routh & Lord John Russell and the heartless Irish landlords. The British adopted a laissez faire view and in 1848 Trevelyn wrote in a letter to Routh " Ireland is on her own,we can do no more for her, let the Famine take it's natural course". Yes it was Genocide.
It's a very long time indeed since I read that book but I don't remember the author ( or indeed, any serious historian, then or now) concluding that the Famine was an act of genocide. If I remember correctly, Woodham-Smith said that although the authorities had been callous and hardhearted in the extreme in their handling of it, it was difficult to see what else they coulld have done given the times and the circumstances ?.


Could they have let the Irish keep their food? Could they have let the relief ships in?
The food wasn't the Irish peoples to keep. They didn't own the farms. That is like saying that Superquinn should feed us all for nowt!

Relief ships were let in but the distribution was handled badly.


You are living in the wrong time - I can see you dealing with these people. You are not a nice person.

And all the relief ships were NOT allowed in - that has already been posted.
 
G

Gimpanzee

The Famine is just one of a long line of disasters, and I don't see why it should be given any more prominence than say the plague which had a much higher kill rate in the middle of the 17th century.*

But the 'genocide' stuff trotted out by the usual suspects is a disgrace. If there is one way to dishonour those who perished it is by refusing to accept the basic facts about their life and times. People die on trolleys in hospitals in 2007. Disgraceful things happen all the time - but trying to draw some sort of equivalence between this and Rwanda, Cambodia or Nazi Germany is grossly insulting.

*the plague deaths are attributed to Cromwell (even though it decimated his forces at times) by our resident one-eyed historians.
 

Aindriu

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 28, 2007
Messages
8,702
joel said:
Aindriu said:
joel said:
PAUL MEYER said:
Eirenua said:
Read " The Great Hunger" Woodham-Smith, Cecil. A well documented and researched book. The approach by the British to the Famine was disgraceful. The main culprits were Trevelyan, Routh & Lord John Russell and the heartless Irish landlords. The British adopted a laissez faire view and in 1848 Trevelyn wrote in a letter to Routh " Ireland is on her own,we can do no more for her, let the Famine take it's natural course". Yes it was Genocide.
It's a very long time indeed since I read that book but I don't remember the author ( or indeed, any serious historian, then or now) concluding that the Famine was an act of genocide. If I remember correctly, Woodham-Smith said that although the authorities had been callous and hardhearted in the extreme in their handling of it, it was difficult to see what else they coulld have done given the times and the circumstances ?.


Could they have let the Irish keep their food? Could they have let the relief ships in?
The food wasn't the Irish peoples to keep. They didn't own the farms. That is like saying that Superquinn should feed us all for nowt!

Relief ships were let in but the distribution was handled badly.


You are living in the wrong time - I can see you dealing with these people. You are not a nice person.

And all the relief ships were NOT allowed in - that has already been posted.
Eejit my own relatives were affected by the famine so go away until you know what you are talking about. How the hell do you think Trevellyans corn got here? Budgie?
 

joel

Well-known member
Joined
May 3, 2007
Messages
810
Aindriu said:
joel said:
Aindriu said:
joel said:
PAUL MEYER said:
[quote="Eirenua":2xonepk2]Read " The Great Hunger" Woodham-Smith, Cecil. A well documented and researched book. The approach by the British to the Famine was disgraceful. The main culprits were Trevelyan, Routh & Lord John Russell and the heartless Irish landlords. The British adopted a laissez faire view and in 1848 Trevelyn wrote in a letter to Routh " Ireland is on her own,we can do no more for her, let the Famine take it's natural course". Yes it was Genocide.
It's a very long time indeed since I read that book but I don't remember the author ( or indeed, any serious historian, then or now) concluding that the Famine was an act of genocide. If I remember correctly, Woodham-Smith said that although the authorities had been callous and hardhearted in the extreme in their handling of it, it was difficult to see what else they coulld have done given the times and the circumstances ?.


Could they have let the Irish keep their food? Could they have let the relief ships in?
The food wasn't the Irish peoples to keep. They didn't own the farms. That is like saying that Superquinn should feed us all for nowt!

Relief ships were let in but the distribution was handled badly.


You are living in the wrong time - I can see you dealing with these people. You are not a nice person.

And all the relief ships were NOT allowed in - that has already been posted.
Eejit my own relatives were affected by the famine so go away until you know what you are talking about. How the hell do you think Trevellyans corn got here? Budgie?[/quote:2xonepk2]


Don't eejit me, mister - practically every Irish family was affected by the holocaust. It is a terrible folk memory.

And seeing as your family was affected you'd think you might have a little human sympathy. Disgusting.
 

L'Chaim

Well-known member
Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
18,967
The famine was a disaster but the UK government's response to it turned the disaster into a catastrophe. This was the last great subsistance crisis in Europe and it happened in a part ruled by, and beside, the richest country of the world. It also spelt the end of the so called union of Great Britain and Ireland. Nationalism really came into it's own after the famine. Up until the famine Irish people were mostly content to be part of the union. That wasn't the case after it.
 

Aindriu

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 28, 2007
Messages
8,702
joel said:
Aindriu said:
joel said:
Aindriu said:
joel said:
[quote="PAUL MEYER":3hrzeiwt][quote="Eirenua":3hrzeiwt]Read " The Great Hunger" Woodham-Smith, Cecil. A well documented and researched book. The approach by the British to the Famine was disgraceful. The main culprits were Trevelyan, Routh & Lord John Russell and the heartless Irish landlords. The British adopted a laissez faire view and in 1848 Trevelyn wrote in a letter to Routh " Ireland is on her own,we can do no more for her, let the Famine take it's natural course". Yes it was Genocide.
It's a very long time indeed since I read that book but I don't remember the author ( or indeed, any serious historian, then or now) concluding that the Famine was an act of genocide. If I remember correctly, Woodham-Smith said that although the authorities had been callous and hardhearted in the extreme in their handling of it, it was difficult to see what else they coulld have done given the times and the circumstances ?.


Could they have let the Irish keep their food? Could they have let the relief ships in?
The food wasn't the Irish peoples to keep. They didn't own the farms. That is like saying that Superquinn should feed us all for nowt!

Relief ships were let in but the distribution was handled badly.


You are living in the wrong time - I can see you dealing with these people. You are not a nice person.

And all the relief ships were NOT allowed in - that has already been posted.
Eejit my own relatives were affected by the famine so go away until you know what you are talking about. How the hell do you think Trevellyans corn got here? Budgie?[/quote:3hrzeiwt]


Don't eejit me, mister - practically every Irish family was affected by the holocaust. It is a terrible folk memory.

And seeing as your family was affected you'd think you might have a little human sympathy. Disgusting.[/quote:3hrzeiwt]

Why? It happened over 160 years ago. No amount of wibble will change it. Move on FFS.
 
Top