The Irish music scam

erigena

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Sep 29, 2006
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121
A chairde,

Does it not seem strange that the years 1997-2007, the so-called economic boom, is the first decade that we haven't produced a major quality popular music artist? 1996 was the year that IMRO was granted an effective monopoly in Ireland on collection of royalties (and, transcending their charter, started collecting for Sky as well). Herein lies a story that would make Hunter S. Thompson tremble.

For the past few years, the bureau of criminal investigations of the gardai, helped by Donal Lunny and many other reputable Irish musicians, investigated the anatomy of the scam. The gardai's investigation was thwarted after a DPP leak to IMRO, but further civil proceedings against the British-based mechanical rights organisation (MCPS)revealed much, which we have in writing. Lunny was forced out of IMRO, and now along with Nuala ni Dhomhnaill and other Irish artists, registers his material with the American BMI. This is not a situation any of us wanted.

In the meantime, Dete and corp. enforcement refused to go after any of the many FF-related music companies trading post-dissolution

We can reveal that an ex-Chairman of IMRO had appropriated copyrights by Irish artists to his publishing company. On the formation of IMRO, these were transferred from MCPS/PRS to IMRO, and the artists involved found themselves totally bereft of substantial broadcast or publishing income. IMRO's contract with the musicians does not require IMRO to give detailed accounts.

The result has been Westlife, the now defunct Sam Mumba, and the risible Celtic woman in place of the quality acts we were producing in the time of “recession”. If any musician is reading this, wondering where the next rent money is coming from, please post.

Finally, is there anyone else who finds it strange that two of our PM's daughters were visited by artistic genius?
 


Redassmonkey

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Feb 21, 2007
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You are quite right,Ireland has not really produced a quality mainstream music act in years!
 

st333ve

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Jul 18, 2006
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What about snow patrol? its not traditional irish music but its the closest thing to a decent irish band i suppose at the moment.
Well theyre from ireland/scotland.

I hear Boyzone will be making a comeback :lol:
 

erigena

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121
st333ve said:
What about snow patrol? its not traditional irish music but its the closest thing to a decent irish band i suppose at the moment.
Well theyre from ireland/scotland.

I hear Boyzone will be making a comeback :lol:
When we were in economic "recession" we were producing quality acts like Rory Gallagher that sold tens of millions of units.

There is an explanations on seanonuallain.com
 

Seamus

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Oct 25, 2005
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monaghan32csm.blogs.ie
I feel that the economic boom in any country has a major impact on the music industry usually detrimental.
The best bands and musicians are usually from working class backgrounds (oasis,beatles,stone roses,joy division,the smiths,happy mondays) or in an irish sense (u2,divine comedy,stiff little fingers,christy moore,sawdoctors,rory gallagher etc)

Bands when there was no money used to rehearse and write most of the day then claim the dole to keep them sorted.
There also hasnt been a decent scene in the last ten years for irish musicians and bands to capitalise on.
Guitars are more popular than ever but with middle class bands such as snowpatrol churning out rubbish to middle class teenagers with no lasting impact wont do anything for the irish music scene or popular music in general.
 
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Feb 19, 2007
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Seamus said:
I feel that the economic boom in any country has a major impact on the music industry usually detrimental.
The best bands and musicians are usually from working class backgrounds (oasis,beatles,stone roses,joy division,the smiths,happy mondays) or in an irish sense (u2,divine comedy,stiff little fingers,christy moore,sawdoctors,rory gallagher etc)

Bands when there was no money used to rehearse and write most of the day then claim the dole to keep them sorted.
There also hasnt been a decent scene in the last ten years for irish musicians and bands to capitalise on.
Guitars are more popular than ever but with middle class bands such as snowpatrol churning out rubbish to middle class teenagers with no lasting impact wont do anything for the irish music scene or popular music in general.
Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, Radio Head, Beatles ( with the exception of Ringo, the Beatles were all grammar school boys ), Nick Drake, Clash...all of 'em were middle class.
Being working class doesn't give you a greater affinity for popular music, John Peel went to a public school but he had a love of pop music that was like few others.

I don't think the dole is conducive to good music either, Noel Gallagher managed to write most his best stuff whilst working on a building site for instance.
The music industry is a cut throat place at best, I'd rather new bands had to work their balls off to earn a wage, than just sign their name for free cash. Artists shouldn't be moddycoddled by the state because they sure as sh!t wont get moddycoddled by the paying public.
 

tumeltyni

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A guy called Dave said:
The music industry is a cut throat place at best, I'd rather new bands had to work their balls off to earn a wage, than just sign their name for free cash. Artists shouldn't be moddycoddled by the state because they sure as sh!t wont get moddycoddled by the paying public.
Agreed. There should however be a situation in this country whereby every child has the opportunity of a decent music education. A proper musical education* network would raise standards across the board.

*By 'proper musical education' I don't necessarily mean in any particular genre. I mean high quality instrumental tuition should be available in the different musical genres, as proposed by Music Network and piloted in Donegal.
 

asknoquestions

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A guy called Dave said:
Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, Radio Head, Beatles ( with the exception of Ringo, the Beatles were all grammar school boys ), Nick Drake, Clash...all of 'em were middle class.
Being working class doesn't give you a greater affinity for popular music, John Peel went to a public school but he had a love of pop music that was like few others.
Keith Richards could hardly be described as middle class.
John Lennon was proud of being working class.
And Paul McCartney got to grammar school by passing the 11-plus exams.
Radiohead are middle-class but if you go to www.radiohead.com you'll see they have socialist leanings.
 

sackville

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A guy called Dave said:
Beatles ( with the exception of Ringo, the Beatles were all grammar school boys )
Going to grammer school hinged on you passing your '11 plus', a type of national entrance exam. Harrison and McCartney were just bright working class boys who did.The Kinks the Who, the yardbirds, Sting,Stone Roses, Happy Mondays.. the list goes on and on.... were all destinctly 'working class'., Although Jagger was a headmaster's son, most the Stones came from the 'outside privy' set too.

A guy called Dave said:
Being working class doesn't give you a greater affinity for popular music, John Peel went to a public school but he had a love of pop music that was like few others.
British broadcasting is an old boy network for the Public School set. The palce is top heavy with them . If Peel had come from a background like McCartney's or Sting's who'd never have heard of him.

A guy called Dave said:
I don't think the dole is conducive to good music either, Noel Gallagher managed to write most his best stuff whilst working on a building site for instance.
he didn't learn his guitar-playing on a site though!

A guy called Dave said:
The music industry is a cut throat place at best, I'd rather new bands had to work their balls off to earn a wage, than just sign their name for free cash. Artists shouldn't be moddycoddled by the state because they sure as sh!t wont get moddycoddled by the paying public.
Imight have known all this factually inaccurate nonsense was coming from some half-baked neo-liberal ideological position. :roll:
 
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78
B*ll*cks!
You mean Charly Watts from that tough north london suburb of Islington, Home counties boy Ronnie Wood and Brian Jones with his aeronautical engineer father ? There's only Keith who's remotely near working class.

As for the The Who? Well for a start, Townsends parents are both professional muscians ( you don't see many of them on a council estate ),

A few more 'posh' bands for you..Blur, Air, Queen, T-Rex, the Doors, Velvet Underground..the list goes on also ( though I think VU ever so slightly
gets the better of Oasis, Stone Roses or the Mondays ).
If you love music, you love music..class and politics is irrelevant to ability and taste.

Look at Geoff Hoon..ex-minister of defence for Britian, Balir acolyte, a major player in Iraqs invasion and one of the very few people to of ever seen Velvet Underground play in NewYork, a real music nut. Tony Benn is effin clueless about experimental 60's garage bands but he's a good socialist.

As for Peel, I thought he got his break because the BBC headhunted him from that bastion of the Public Shool set...Pirate Radio.

'half-baked neo-liberal ideological position'? Well mate I speak from experience. I used to be a tape-op in recording studio in Liverpool and we did a new deal course ( jobseekers ) for bands and it never amounted to squat, a subsidised muscian wont write great music...how can he? He's not dependant on an audience to hone his ability.

The Beatles played every dive in Merseyside to Hamburg, if they'd of been on the dole they wouldn't of had to play half as many gigs and they wouldn't of been as tight as a result.
 

Riadach

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12,817
Well the best poetry is composed by miserable people, maybe the same holds true for music?
 

sackville

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The working class worked for living - hence the name, A guy called Dave.

I could on but I think the OP of this thread is too important to allow the topic to be diverted into a futile 'discussion' on the definition of class .

erigena said:
A chairde,

Does it not seem strange that the years 1997-2007, the so-called economic boom, is the first decade that we haven't produced a major quality popular music artist? 1996 was the year that IMRO was granted an effective monopoly in Ireland on collection of royalties (and, transcending their charter, started collecting for Sky as well). Herein lies a story that would make Hunter S. Thompson tremble.

For the past few years, the bureau of criminal investigations of the gardai, helped by Donal Lunny and many other reputable Irish musicians, investigated the anatomy of the scam. The gardai's investigation was thwarted after a DPP leak to IMRO, but further civil proceedings against the British-based mechanical rights organisation (MCPS)revealed much, which we have in writing. Lunny was forced out of IMRO, and now along with Nuala ni Dhomhnaill and other Irish artists, registers his material with the American BMI. This is not a situation any of us wanted.

In the meantime, Dete and corp. enforcement refused to go after any of the many FF-related music companies trading post-dissolution

We can reveal that an ex-Chairman of IMRO had appropriated copyrights by Irish artists to his publishing company. On the formation of IMRO, these were transferred from MCPS/PRS to IMRO, and the artists involved found themselves totally bereft of substantial broadcast or publishing income. IMRO's contract with the musicians does not require IMRO to give detailed accounts.

The result has been Westlife, the now defunct Sam Mumba, and the risible Celtic woman in place of the quality acts we were producing in the time of “recession”. If any musician is reading this, wondering where the next rent money is coming from, please post.

Finally, is there anyone else who finds it strange that two of our PM's daughters were visited by artistic genius?

an important and revelatory post - back on topic!
 

netcomm

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Jun 17, 2006
Messages
47
The reason we're not producing any bands, musicians etc is because of one person and that person is Louis Walsh.
He destroyed the opportunities for Live bands by introducting crap 'so called' music with his boy/girl groups who couldn't sing, play musicial instruments and made their money from pre-teens (usually girls) who pestered their parents to buy such drivel.

It was him and his ilk who destroyed the Irish Music industry and he should never be forgiven.

All over this country the Live music scene in pubs and clubs is dwindling in the face of piped music and so called DJs who wouldn't know a musical instrument from a record needle.
 

erigena

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sackville said:
The working class worked for living - hence the name, A guy called Dave.

I could on but I think the OP of this thread is too important to allow the topic to be diverted into a futile 'discussion' on the definition of class .


an important and revelatory post - back on topic!
Thanks, sackville. Sorry about leaving this thread alone for a while; I gig in the US, and it's our busiest time of year. As you point out, it is vitally important that the Irish music business get sorted. We are making asses of ourselves with this transfer of money from quality music to pop crap. As for John waters, time to dig out the fr. Ted “my lovely horse” episode.

Wrt the post after you, who is Louis Walsh really? Alternatively put, where did he get the resources to finance the numerous failures as well as the few successes? Why is a return of Boyzone the best he can come up with now after apparently scaling the heights of the international music biz?Lest we forget, the brit charts are notoriously rigged, the sales numbers are low, and not even Paddy Power will take bets on them. Secondly, did anyone notice that the same Murdoch-affiliated publisher that gave Ms. Ahern her contract and uses numerous ghost-writers just gave GW Bush's daughter a publishing contract? Why did IMRO collect for Murdoch's sky?

As I have already pointed out, the real meat can be read on seanonuallain.com. For the moment, in this more cautious venue, I offer a few predictions

1.We will never hear of Louis Walsh again after the current media funeral services
2.Likewise, Mumba, Boyzone, etc
3.Ms Ahern will experience writer's block if FF fail to get in again. Permanently.

It is up to us to make sure this grotesquerie never happens again. I live in hope that the Rory Gallaghers and Phil Lynotts out there will come out of hiding soon.
 

stewiegriffin

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bands today seem too keen to impersonate whats trendy in ingerland or the states, ie the thrills.its all style and no substance :cry:
 

st333ve

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If i ever hear some arshole band trying to sing with a liam gallagher accent one more time, i swear ill go nuts!
I was at a battle of the bands competition in cookstown, there were bands from all over the place, america etc. but every band from ireland was either trying to be Oasis or McFly what has the world come to?
Whats wrong with singing in the good auld irshh accent
 

erigena

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Wednesday said:
There are a load of excellent Irish indie bands around at the moment. The problem is not that the music isn't being made.
I absolutely agree - I manage one myself. What my postings are about is why they're not being allowed to make a living.
 
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Tam the snowpatrol keyboard player grew up just outside my hometown, he's a good lad..

How about Bell X1, They are fantastic! or Damien Rice for Irish music?
 


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