The Irish Subjugation - excellent analysis by Philipp Bagus

SKELLY

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Europe is in turmoil once again. The sovereign-debt crisis threatens to spread from Ireland to Portugal and Spain. It all began with the financial crisis. Before the financial crisis, several governments of the eurozone, most notably those of Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece, and Spain (PIIGS), had been able to finance their deficits at artificially low interest rates. Some had accumulated unsustainable levels of public debts.

Such reckless fiscal behavior was only possible because markets assumed that if the national situations got worse, these governments would be bailed out by other countries of the eurozone in order to forestall a breakup of the euro. In other words, the euro came with an implicit bailout guarantee permitting governments to overindulge in debt. The implicit guarantee was and still is grounded in political interests. A failure of the euro would be interpreted as a failure of the idea of European centralization — i.e., of the European Union. This failure is regarded as something politically inconceivable.

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The European project has failed. Why?
Because its been hijacked by power hungry politicians and there crony banker friends.

Its time to end this charade.

An idealist currency built on the wet dreams of politicians and not on sound economics was always doomed to failure.

This is what happens when you leave decisions up to career politicians drunk on power.

The real victim here is not the taxpayer, dole claimant or pensioner nor citizen but democracy itself. A freedom we fought dearly to get has been usurped.

And were is our media to highlight this?!
lazy and complacent!

SICKENING!
 
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Freedom front

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Great Article

Time to Default
Leave the Euro
Relaunch Punt linked to Sterling
Introduce Quick ,Short Bankruptcy laws
Prosecute Bankers & Corrupt politicians , Regulators

We are not Prisoners of Europe we are Visitor's

Take Our Country Back , Stop this Madness
 

LongShanks

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Excellent article. Thanks for posting it.

I could never understand why we entered the euro in the first place as 60% of our exports are to the UK/US.
 

Skin

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What I find interesting about this article is the reference to the 12.5% corporation tax rate. On another thread "Economic Crisis - Prelude to EU Superstate" I questioned why, German banks with vast deposit bases lent so heavily into the Irish economy, when their own ecomony trudged along with 0.28% growth over the period 1991-2010. Why did they not funnel this cash into the German economy itself?

The article above provides the answer. Set up a 'bank' in the IFSC or in an office on Stephens Green, lend money into the Irish system and with the interest repayments being charged only 12.5% - they were on to a winner!

So the cosy consensus is that our 12.5% corporation tax is to be untouchable, that it is our saving grace, is now to be questioned. Is the 12.5% coropration tax rate a burden to this state?
 

slumdog1971

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The European project has failed. Why?
Because its been hijacked by power hungry politicians and there crony banker friends.

Its time to end this charade.
Who said it has failed?

Perhaps it is going to succeed on a greater scale than ever possibly imagined ?????

What was the purpose of having a european parliement What was the purpose of electing MEPs?

Surely the end result was always going to be a centralized super power to rival the Americans and the Chinese.

The question is whether you want that or not. imo.
 

slumdog1971

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So the cosy consensus is that our 12.5% corporation tax is to be untouchable, that it is our saving grace, is now to be questioned. Is the 12.5% coropration tax rate a burden to this state?
It isn't a burden to Ireland ( although it isn't the goose that keeps laying either)

It is a burden to Frau Merkel and Mon Sirzhozy because it allows Brass plate companies to funnel profits. And He/She who pays the piper calls the tune.

I think the MEPS will get enough signatures to force a discussion on this in the Euro Parliment. If that happens we won't be allowed tax corporations at 12.5% for too long more.

And to be honest there is a bit of me who doesn't like Corpo profits at 12.5% whilst personel tax hoovers around 55%.

The Gov should be saying to Corpo's that in order to avail of our 12.5% you need to have your board or a significatn manufacturing presence in this country. We have too many brass plate companies.
 

Cassandra Syndrome

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Who said it has failed?

Perhaps it is going to succeed on a greater scale than ever possibly imagined ?????

What was the purpose of having a european parliement What was the purpose of electing MEPs?

Surely the end result was always going to be a centralized super power to rival the Americans and the Chinese.

The question is whether you want that or not. imo.
Centralised superpower? Is that what you really want? A dictatorship?

The Road To Serfdom is not an aspiration of mine, thank you very much.
 

slumdog1971

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Centralised superpower? Is that what you really want? A dictatorship?

The Road To Serfdom is not an aspiration of mine, thank you very much.

Cool the jets Cassandra.

I said that the European project hasn't failed. I think it is going to succeed to a greater extent than people ever realised. The original aim was a federal state, to set itself up as a superpower capable of defense against the Soviets without American assistence. It grew from a desire by the Germans to have allies in any conflict Russia, a conflict which would have been fought on German soil.

To your question about whether I want it or not, I don't know.
I feel betrayed by our politicans and I feel shame for electing them. I wonder whether we can govern ourselves so sometimes I think we can only do better if we were governed by a german or french man.
 

Skin

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It isn't a burden to Ireland ( although it isn't the goose that keeps laying either)

It is a burden to Frau Merkel and Mon Sirzhozy because it allows Brass plate companies to funnel profits. And He/She who pays the piper calls the tune.

I think the MEPS will get enough signatures to force a discussion on this in the Euro Parliment. If that happens we won't be allowed tax corporations at 12.5% for too long more.

And to be honest there is a bit of me who doesn't like Corpo profits at 12.5% whilst personel tax hoovers around 55%.

The Gov should be saying to Corpo's that in order to avail of our 12.5% you need to have your board or a significatn manufacturing presence in this country. We have too many brass plate companies.
Exactly, they are funnelling their profits through the Irish state to avail of the 12.5% corporation tax rate. Deposit bases in Ireland were overly expansive, lending from deposit bases held in Ireland went into overdrive and the speculation began. A combination of low interest rates from the ECB and a 12.5% corporation tax rate led to the commencement of the bubble. At this point we needed a Government and a Regulator to call halt and do something (I think its more commonly known as "managing the economy").

Yet today, the cosy consensus is to leave corporation tax rates at 12.5%!!!
 
D

Dylan2010

Cool the jets Cassandra.

I said that the European project hasn't failed. I think it is going to succeed to a greater extent than people ever realised. The original aim was a federal state, to set itself up as a superpower capable of defense against the Soviets without American assistence. It grew from a desire by the Germans to have allies in any conflict Russia, a conflict which would have been fought on German soil.

To your question about whether I want it or not, I don't know.
I feel betrayed by our politicans and I feel shame for electing them. I wonder whether we can govern ourselves so sometimes I think we can only do better if we were governed by a german or french man.

the way I look at it, small countries need to be "connected" to their larger neighbours, simple history and explains why Dev etc were loons. But doesnt imply a federal setup. If something doesnt make sense at the individual level it cant make more sense the larger the entity becomes. The ECB is no better then some of the regional central banks, and a federal EU would not create wealth which generates stability.
Ireland has 60 million potential customers less then an hour away, all we need to be is 10% cheaper and we have a future. For a small country this is very possible as we can opt of out of defense obligations and other nonsense that gets foisted on us. We should be the "swiss" of the west.
 

BertsBeard

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As members of the 'European Community' what, if any, is the justification used by the Irish government for a corporation tax rate set at a level specifically designed to capture tax revenues that should otherwise be paid to other members?

Can claiming our small economy would be damaged by the removal of the 12.5pc rate justify its continuance when doing so damages the economies of those countries we are now relying on to bail us out?

Lots of people want our country's leaders to operate to a higher moral standard, but have no problem with a tax rate that allows multi-billion dollar international companies pay less tax in Ireland than they would in the country where the majority of their profits were earned.

If we really want things done differently in this country then I'm struggling to see how this rate can survive.
 
D

Dylan2010

As members of the 'European Community' what, if any, is the justification used by the Irish government for a corporation tax rate set at a level specifically designed to capture tax revenues that should otherwise be paid to other members?

Can claiming our small economy would be damaged by the removal of the 12.5pc rate justify its continuance when doing so damages the economies of those countries we are now relying on to bail us out?

Lots of people want our country's leaders to operate to a higher moral standard, but have no problem with a tax rate that allows multi-billion dollar international companies pay less tax in Ireland than they would in the country where the majority of their profits were earned.

If we really want things done differently in this country then I'm struggling to see how this rate can survive.
wrong logic, who says the business goes back to Europe?
 

Cabbage/Turnip

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i am all for leaving the euro and re establishing our independence....

but there is one question i have asked who ever i know that feels like this and i cant get an answer that makes sense..

if we burn the bondholders (bond interest rates go up making it money more unafforadable) leave the euro and restore the punt... how do we finance the next year of this countries existence? it might be a simple question but i cant get my head around it
 

davidvaughan

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As members of the 'European Community' what, if any, is the justification used by the Irish government for a corporation tax rate set at a level specifically designed to capture tax revenues that should otherwise be paid to other members?
One might also ask why continental governments have set their corporation taxes so high, and suggest that other governments lower their own rates.

Tax competition is good for the European Union. When Ireland charges 12.5% and France charges 33%, yet Ireland still has roads and a police force and its bins get emptied, the people of France are entitled to ask what their money is being spent on.
 

BertsBeard

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Dylan 2010, companies are always going to try to avoid paying tax, I just don't think that Ireland should have an official policy that helps them do so.

If we have the young, dynamic, well educated, flexible workforce we keep telling themselves we have then a lot of companies will stay with us after the tax risen to closer to the EU norm. If, however, they are here only for the tax breaks then we cannot base our recovery on them.

Do the benefits of this tax outweigh the costs?
 

MPB

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Cool the jets Cassandra.

I said that the European project hasn't failed. I think it is going to succeed to a greater extent than people ever realised. The original aim was a federal state, to set itself up as a superpower capable of defense against the Soviets without American assistence. It grew from a desire by the Germans to have allies in any conflict Russia, a conflict which would have been fought on German soil.

To your question about whether I want it or not, I don't know.
I feel betrayed by our politicans and I feel shame for electing them. I wonder whether we can govern ourselves so sometimes I think we can only do better if we were governed by a german or french man.
What an utterly stupid thing to say.

Why would a German or French man have any interest in doing right by Ireland?

Sometimes I despair of people in this country.
 


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