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The Jobs crisis is getting worse.


Neutron

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2012
Messages
3,980
The Jobs crisis in Ireland is getting worse.

Unemployment has appeared to be steady over the past 12 months with very little change; thousands of Irish have packed up and left the country and gone abroad to look for work.

However despite all this the welfare bill is expanding.

How can the welfare bill be expanding at a time that unemployment appears to be steady despite still being very high?

Many factors are playing their part, one of the worst factors is the Job bridge scheme and internships, as of Feb this year 5,000 people had taken up internships with similar figures on other government schemes such as FAS, WPP and community projects.

Overall however Ireland is in a bigger crisis.

Every month we appear to be getting job announcements by the government on jobs being created. What they don’t tell you however is that many of these jobs are simply not viable for many existing unemployed people as they are looking for a particular skill set that many of the unemployed don’t have. Of course we could look at retraining but that takes time which isn’t what an employer is looking for. A simple solution for the employer is to recruit that best person for the job which in many cases can be someone from abroad.

Also many of the jobs announced are part time positions, these positions will help relieve the burden on welfare payments but in most cases people can still avail of welfare payments to help top up and subsidise their income if supporting a family.

The biggest issue with a lot of the job announcements by the government is that they are planned announcements for the future. Whilst it may well be the intentions of a company setting up here to create thousands of jobs over the next 3-5 years it may well not be there position the following year. The recent announcements by PayPal highlight this where they with the government announced huge employment in Ireland last year only to discover this year that they plan on reducing the amount of employees they have worldwide.

However despite all this the total number of jobs in Ireland is falling, this is bad news because even if you factor in all those people leaving the country, the population of Ireland is bigger today than it was in 2005.

Each year Ireland is losing more and more jobs which is obviously reducing tax take and pushing up the cost of welfare. We are also increasing the number of part time jobs which isn’t good at all as it further forces people to rely on welfare supports to top up their incomes.

Despite Fine Gael saying that they were going to get Ireland working they have simply allowed things to get worse, a lot worse.





Fine Gael’s 5 Point Plan to Get Ireland Working - Kenny

Fine Gael Party Leader, Enda Kenny T.D. along with members of his Front Bench will today (Wednesday) outline the core elements of the Party’s 5 Point Plan to Get Ireland Working. The Plan is designed to create jobs, reform the health system, fix the budget crisis, make Government smaller and more cost effective and put the burden on politicians first.







“At the heart of the current economic crisis is an unemployment crisis. Over the last three years 300,000 people have lost their jobs – the biggest fall in employment in the OECD and 100,000 mostly young people will emigrate over the next two years.







“Fine Gael has a clear credible jobs plan which will create 20,000 jobs every year over the next four years by focusing on spending cuts rather than job-destroying tax increases. We will invest in our future through our NewERA plan to pump €7 billion in green infrastructure. We will invest in small and medium sized businesses through a new partial loan guarantee scheme which will give them the credit they so desperately need. In addition, we intend to abolish the lower rate of employer PRSI to encourage the creation and retention of jobs.
Official Website of Fine Gael

Employment has also fallen over the years, employment is the total number of job in Ireland.

Total in Employment
2005 - 1,944.6
2006 - 2,034.9
2007 - 2,113.9
2008 - 2,112.8
2009 -
1,938.5

2010 -
1,859.1

201 1- 1,821.3
2012- 1,787.9


As the table above shows in 2005 Ireland had 1,944.6 people at working, in 2012 we have 1,787.9 working.



Total Labour Force
2005 - 2,040.4
2006- 2,132.8
2007 - 2,217.0
2008 - 2,239.6
2009 - 2,203.1
2010 - 2,152.7
2011 - 2,125.9
2012 - 2,096.4


Whilst many young Irish continue to leave looking for work elsewhere the labour force table above shows clearly that today in 2012 we have a larger labour force than we had in 2005 when we had low unemployment.

Total Unemployed
2005- 95.8
2006 - 97.9
2007 - 103.1
2008 - 126.7
2009 - 264.6
2010 - 293.6
2011 - 304.5
2012 - 308.5



In 2005 we had just under 95,000 people claiming unemployment whilst in 2012 we have over 300,000 claiming unemployment.

Population 15 Years & Over
2005 - 3,287.9
2006 - 3,376.1
2007 - 3,462.5
2008 - 3,514.9
2009 - 3,523.8
2010 - 3,512.4
2011 - 3,502.7
2012 - 3,486.2


Despite record numbers of Irish people leaving to look for work our population over the age of 15 is still higher than it was in 2005.

The above figures can be obtained from the CSO website or click the link.



Irish Politics, Current Affairs and Magazine Archive - Politico.ie | Grim gets grimmer

The above table also shows that full time employment is falling, more and more jobs that are being created are part time positions which are causing more people to rely on welfare payments to top up their weekly income.
 

Morgellons

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Joined
Mar 24, 2012
Messages
5,056
Get used to mass unemployment. Unless society is remodelled entirely it's here to stay.
 

Neutron

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Joined
Jan 6, 2012
Messages
3,980
It's time to slash welfare payments. Simple.
Welfare has been cut for the past 4 years, has things got any better?

If we were to slash welfare more like you suggest things would get worse and more jobs would be lost.

Fine Gael promised to sort this out, they have failed big time.

We need jobs in Ireland not spin, time for the government to start doing their job and creating an Economy where jobs can be created instead of licking Merkels arse.
 

Analyzer

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2011
Messages
46,201
It certainly is. Look at the lengths to which Mrs. Gimmemore had to go to stay in employment.
 

Lain2016

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 1, 2011
Messages
7,713
Get used to mass unemployment. Unless society is remodelled entirely it's here to stay.
Did you say remodelled? :)

Said it before and will say it again all families should get the Average Industrial Wage :shock:

I know you're all in shock...so read:

We have a society (community, country, nation call it what you will) where we are meant to care about/for each other particularly the ill and aged. But thats not the reality, the reality is its far more dog eat dog than that.

So if you're a "winner" in this type of society, you're sitting pretty and fug the rest...but thats not the reality either. What you get is heavily taxed, you have to scam and scheme with brown paper bags, corruption and off shore accounts and may end up like some of our well known (formerly) rich doing time etc. Not great; you also know there are many in our community who arent doing so well, while you have more than you will ever need...

If families were paid the AIW:
welfare would end.
People would be allocated work - of which there is plenty - health service, teaching, emergency services etc.
Crime would be reduced to near zero.
Drug and alcohol dependency which are largely (although not exclusively) associated with deprivation would greatly reduce.
Obesity largely (although not exclusively) associated with deprivation would greatly reduce.
Health risks of the above examples would greatly reduce.
People would move easily from one position to another, from one job to another, gaining experience and knowledge as they went.
 

gerhard dengler

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Joined
Feb 3, 2011
Messages
47,554
Welfare has been cut for the past 4 years, has things got any better?

If we were to slash welfare more like you suggest things would get worse and more jobs would be lost.

Fine Gael promised to sort this out, they have failed big time.
http://www.finance.gov.ie/documents/exchequerstatements/2012/Exchequeroct.pdf

Year to date "social protection" expenditure is €11.6 billion to 31.10.2012.
Year to date "social protection" expenditure was €11.1 billion to 31.10.2011.

It would be interesting to know how much of the expenditure is in respect of unemployment benefit/assistance.
 

Neutron

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Joined
Jan 6, 2012
Messages
3,980
http://www.finance.gov.ie/documents/exchequerstatements/2012/Exchequeroct.pdf

Year to date "social protection" expenditure is €11.6 billion to 31.10.2012.
Year to date "social protection" expenditure was €11.1 billion to 31.10.2011.

It would be interesting to know how much of the expenditure is in respect of unemployment benefit/assistance.
This enforces my point that despite unemployment being static the cost of welfare is increasing. This is because the number of jos in Ireland is falling and a lot of the new jobs being created are part time or government schemes meaning people still rely on welfare for assistance.
 

Grumpy Jack

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Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
6,090
Where exactly do posters think these jobs are going to come from?

Around 250,000 jobs were lost due to the sudden stop in bank lending and the subsequent collapse of the construction sector - they are not coming back and neither is the free and easy credit that sustained them.

This is simply another consequence of Bertienomics and it will take years, if not decades, to undo and repair.

And there is very little this govt or any other can do about it.
 

Neutron

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Joined
Jan 6, 2012
Messages
3,980
Where exactly do posters think these jobs are going to come from?

Around 250,000 jobs were lost due to the sudden stop in bank lending and the subsequent collapse of the construction sector - they are not coming back and neither is the free and easy credit that sustained them.

This is simply another consequence of the of Bertienomics and it will years, if not decades, to undo and repair.

And there is very little this govt or any other can do about it.
There is plenty the government can do about it.

The current scheme of running behind Europe and bailing out bondholders whilst squeezing the citizens clearly hasnt worked. What we should be doing is borrowing to create employment. Creating the right enviroment for job growth.

Everything the government does kills jobs, any more cuts to welfare will further kill growth, VAT increases kill growth. We need to tax those who can afford it and stop paying the debts of the banks. instead of Noonan going to Europe to sign of Greek debt cuts he should have been screaming for Irish debt cuts.
 

oggy

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Joined
Oct 28, 2009
Messages
8,958
FG and Labour condemned FF for allowing the workforce to double, reaching full employment, stopping emigration and allowing immigration. In effect they believe FF was crazy not to maintain an unemployment rate of at least 15%. They have that rate now and there is nothing in this whole world will make them allow that figure to go down
 

gerhard dengler

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 3, 2011
Messages
47,554
Where exactly do posters think these jobs are going to come from?

Around 250,000 jobs were lost due to the sudden stop in bank lending and the subsequent collapse of the construction sector - they are not coming back and neither is the free and easy credit that sustained them.

This is simply another consequence of Bertienomics and it will take years, if not decades, to undo and repair.

And there is very little this govt or any other can do about it.
I think the government can do several things.

The government can cut expenditure along with slashing taxes.
You do realise that the current budget deficit to 31.10.2012 is actually higher than the deficit to 31.10.2011?

Slash pay rates across the public sector. Re-open Croke Park. Why are Irish Hospital consultants still being paid at rates higher than their European colleagues? Same with teachers? Same with PS's at management levels?
 

Neutron

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2012
Messages
3,980
Half of me agrees with you, but the other half would miss the cheap laughs.
Do you have anything to add to this thread?

you appear to be growing into a troll, simply going around threads posting off topic points.
 

laidback

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Messages
1,134
Welfare covers a wide range of payments contributory and non contributory (means tested).

We have an ageing population - perhaps one reason for the increase in welfare is the increasing number of people becoming of pensionable age and getting the pension whether contributory or contributory plus the household benefits and travel pass. Also people are living longer but very old people generally require a lot of support ie carers, home help, community nurse etc which all adds to the welfare bill.
 

Mossy Heneberry

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 10, 2009
Messages
3,841
Did you say remodelled? :)

Said it before and will say it again all families should get the Average Industrial Wage :shock:

I know you're all in shock...so read:

We have a society (community, country, nation call it what you will) where we are meant to care about/for each other particularly the ill and aged. But thats not the reality, the reality is its far more dog eat dog than that.

So if you're a "winner" in this type of society, you're sitting pretty and fug the rest...but thats not the reality either. What you get is heavily taxed, you have to scam and scheme with brown paper bags, corruption and off shore accounts and may end up like some of our well known (formerly) rich doing time etc. Not great; you also know there are many in our community who arent doing so well, while you have more than you will ever need...

If families were paid the AIW:
welfare would end.
People would be allocated work - of which there is plenty - health service, teaching, emergency services etc.
Crime would be reduced to near zero.
Drug and alcohol dependency which are largely (although not exclusively) associated with deprivation would greatly reduce.
Obesity largely (although not exclusively) associated with deprivation would greatly reduce.
Health risks of the above examples would greatly reduce.
People would move easily from one position to another, from one job to another, gaining experience and knowledge as they went.
One question. Who will pay for this average industrial wage?
 
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