The Kosovan Domino.

LTGuy

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FT - are you talking about Republika Srpska? Yeah, true - they will never subjugate to Bosniaks who were beheading them before war erupted. Or was it about Eastern Slavonia where Croats went on rampage? What are you talking about now? I am confused...
 


FutureTaoiseach

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LTGuy said:
FT - are you talking about Republika Srpska? Yeah, true - they will never subjugate to Bosniaks who were beheading them before war erupted. Or was it about Eastern Slavonia where Croats went on rampage? What are you talking about now? I am confused...
That is true aswell although what happened in Eastern Slavonia was started by the Serbs remember Vukovar where the inhabitants of a hospital were slaughtered?
 

LTGuy

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The sad truth is that all parties have their hands bloody. So I don't buy the argument - "oh, poor innocent Albanians - they were just sitting around when came blood-thirsty Serbs and slaughtered them all". No pity for Albanians, neither for Serbs or Bosniaks for that matter.

More to the matter, there is no illusion that Serbs or other minorities (like Gypsies) will be safe in the newly independent Kosovo. So province must be split with northern quarter abutting Serbia proper firmly in the hands of Serbian majority. Population exchange would be also very welcome - just for the safety of people involved. Anyway, judging by all omens Kosovo will be a new black hole of Europe so I am sure there won't be too many non-Albanians staying in this drugs-cum-prostitution hub of Balkans

p.s. I really enjoyed the video of George Bush's watch being stolen in the lights of camera by "grateful" Albanians.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuRR7qLY ... re=related
 
G

Gadjodilo

seabhcan said:
Gadjodilo said:
seabhcan said:
Hardly, The US has no interest in the welfare of Kosovars. The used the serb attacks to justify an invasion for their own reasons. There is a lot of evidence that the US trained and supported the more radical elements of the KLA in order to provoke the Serbs into attacks.
Like I said before, why would the USA bother to do this? Kosovo has no strategic value.
Kosovo has great strategic value - its a foothold in the region from which to control the whole of the Balkans.

The idea that the US acts altruistically is as laughable as the idea that Russia, or any other large nation, acts altruistically.
Granted, it doesn't usually act altruistically but on that occasion I believe it did. The EU and the US had allowed the Serbs to slaughter all round them in Croatia and Bosnia. When they saw it start to happen all over again in Kosovo, they decided - partly due to public outrage - that enough was enough.

By the way, why would they need Kosovo when they already have so many allies in the region and others clamouring to join NATO.
 
G

Gadjodilo

LTGuy said:
So why are Albanians so squeamish about letting go Mitrovica? Serbs are in majority there, the region is contiguous with Serbia proper, so "self-determination" applies to Albanians only?
The Mitrovica region has huge mineral wealth which is why the Albanians want to hold it. But the logic and ethics of what you're saying is correct; Mitrovica should be allowed stay with Serbia.
 
G

Gadjodilo

cropbeye said:
Gadjodilo said:
Podolski said:
Gadjodilo said:
They're 90% of the population, FFS! If that's not a mandate, what is?
This was achieved through the ethnic cleansing of the local Serbs. Kosovo has never been independent. What next after Kosovo - lop off the Serbian province of Voyvodina? Derry?
Wrong, it wasn't. Kosovans have been a majority there for centuries. They outbred the Serbs. As long ago as the mid-1930s, the Serbs have been slaughtering Kosovans trying to wipe them out.
Utter nonsense.
See this:
http://www.d-n-i.net/fcs/comments/c306.htm

I was wrong - sorry. The massacres actually started long before that.

(The Albanians were no saints, by the way.)
 
G

Gadjodilo

LTGuy said:
So province must be split with northern quarter abutting Serbia proper firmly in the hands of Serbian majority.
By that token, then parts of southern Serbia should be transferred to Albanian hands.
 

MichaelR

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In any event what's wrong with Serbia asking for EU membership as a package deal with Kosovo independence?
 

LTGuy

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Gadjodilo said:
LTGuy said:
So why are Albanians so squeamish about letting go Mitrovica? Serbs are in majority there, the region is contiguous with Serbia proper, so "self-determination" applies to Albanians only?
The Mitrovica region has huge mineral wealth which is why the Albanians want to hold it. But the logic and ethics of what you're saying is correct; Mitrovica should be allowed stay with Serbia.
Ah, this is THE point. "Human rights" et al - were just a cover for a blunt mineral grab? So US action in Kosovo is no difference from Iraq after all. Thanks for clarifying the situation...
 

FutureTaoiseach

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LTGuy said:
The sad truth is that all parties have their hands bloody. So I don't buy the argument - "oh, poor innocent Albanians - they were just sitting around when came blood-thirsty Serbs and slaughtered them all". No pity for Albanians, neither for Serbs or Bosniaks for that matter.

More to the matter, there is no illusion that Serbs or other minorities (like Gypsies) will be safe in the newly independent Kosovo. So province must be split with northern quarter abutting Serbia proper firmly in the hands of Serbian majority. Population exchange would be also very welcome - just for the safety of people involved. Anyway, judging by all omens Kosovo will be a new black hole of Europe so I am sure there won't be too many non-Albanians staying in this drugs-cum-prostitution hub of Balkans

p.s. I really enjoyed the video of George Bush's watch being stolen in the lights of camera by "grateful" Albanians.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuRR7qLY ... re=related
I don't agree that 25% of Kosovo should go to Serbia. Serbs are only around 6% of the population at this stage, so many Serbs having left since 1999. I agree perhaps Mitrovica should be given to Serbia though.
 

Thac0man

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Kosovo is a case of an indiginious peoples, the Illyians, whom the Albanian and Kosovan are decended from and predate all Slav groupings in the region, pressing their claim for freedom from centuries of domination. Serbias claim to Kosovo may be old, but it is not as old as the Kosovans and given the massive ethnic population imbalance have now even far less validity .

It is interesting how those who seek to undermine the right to self determination of the Kosovan people, never address the justifications or base motives for the counter argument.

In the current situation arguments about what the KLA did or did not do are irrelivent and justify nothing. They were not the representitives of thre Kosovan people, Ibrahim Rogova and his party, who persued a policy of pacifism were. A fact reflected in their land slide election victory post war.

The parrallels between the Irish and Kosovan struggles for identitly and freedom are meriad. It is strange that some people on this Island cannot see that and choose instead to justify oppression. A low ebb that I hope does not relect on all of us.
 
G

Gadjodilo

MichaelR said:
In any event what's wrong with Serbia asking for EU membership as a package deal with Kosovo independence?
All prospective EU members must be able to show that they're following the rules of the club. The 10 who joined in 2004 did as did the Romanians and Bulgarians. We're demanding it from the Turks so the Serbs shouldn't expect any special treatment. At the moment, they're a long way off that as at least one other thread here has shown.
 
G

Gadjodilo

LTGuy said:
Gadjodilo said:
The Mitrovica region has huge mineral wealth which is why the Albanians want to hold it. But the logic and ethics of what you're saying is correct; Mitrovica should be allowed stay with Serbia.
Ah, this is THE point. "Human rights" et al - were just a cover for a blunt mineral grab? So US action in Kosovo is no difference from Iraq after all. Thanks for clarifying the situation...
Yawn. I'm sure the Yanks have enough lead and zinc already in their vast homeland. They don't need to go to war on the other side of the world for it.
 
G

Gadjodilo

Thac0man said:
In the current situation arguments about what the KLA did or did not do are irrelivent and justify nothing. They were not the representitives of thre Kosovan people, Ibrahim Rogova and his party, who persued a policy of pacifism were. A fact reflected in their land slide election victory post war.

The parrallels between the Irish and Kosovan struggles for identitly and freedom are meriad. It is strange that some people on this Island cannot see that and choose instead to justify oppression. A low ebb that I hope does not relect on all of us.
Thank you! These are very important points I should have mentioned earlier. Under the inspired leadership of Ibrahim Rugova, the Kosovars peacefully resisted Serbian oppression for over 10 years. The world ignored them; Kosovo was at "peace" to why fix it if it ain't broken?

It took the violence of the KLA to bring Kosovo's plight to the attention of the world. There's a lesson there for the west: intervene where there is oppression, don't wait until the shooting starts.
 

FutureTaoiseach

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Thac0man said:
Kosovo is a case of an indiginious peoples, the Illyians, whom the Albanian and Kosovan are decended from and predate all Slav groupings in the region, pressing their claim for freedom from centuries of domination. Serbias claim to Kosovo may be old, but it is not as old as the Kosovans and given the massive ethnic population imbalance have now even far less validity .

It is interesting how those who seek to undermine the right to self determination of the Kosovan people, never address the justifications or base motives for the counter argument.

In the current situation arguments about what the KLA did or did not do are irrelivent and justify nothing. They were not the representitives of thre Kosovan people, Ibrahim Rogova and his party, who persued a policy of pacifism were. A fact reflected in their land slide election victory post war.

The parrallels between the Irish and Kosovan struggles for identitly and freedom are meriad. It is strange that some people on this Island cannot see that and choose instead to justify oppression. A low ebb that I hope does not relect on all of us.
This may be true although historians disagree on who is descended from the Illyrians. The most popular theory is the Albanians, though some believe the Dacians and therefore modern Romanians may be the Romanised descendents of the Illyrians.
 

Zyklon B

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Gadjodilo said:
seabhcan said:
While you indulge in your geo-political ramblings and conspiracy theorising from the safety of your cosy West European armchair, might I point out that the Kosovans overwhelmingly welcome the protection they receive from NATO. It's their only defence from the same treatment that the Serbs dished out in all Muslim males in Srebrenica.

Mass Extermination.
 

Trampas

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seabhcan said:
Gadjodilo said:
1. The Russians don't give a flying f**k about the Abkhazians or the Ossetians. It's all about undermining Georgia which DARED to break free of Russian domination.
Why do you think the US cares about Kosovo. They don't do anything for free. Kosovo can break away from Serbia but it won't be independent until the NATO occupation ends.
THe US "cares" about Kosovo (soon to be Kosova) because after independence they can leave town and hand the whole sorry mess over to the EU. Lucky EU.
 

LTGuy

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Thac0man said:
Kosovo is a case of an indiginious peoples, the Illyians, whom the Albanian and Kosovan are decended from and predate all Slav groupings in the region, pressing their claim for freedom from centuries of domination. Serbias claim to Kosovo may be old, but it is not as old as the Kosovans and given the massive ethnic population imbalance have now even far less validity .

It is interesting how those who seek to undermine the right to self determination of the Kosovan people, never address the justifications or base motives for the counter argument.

In the current situation arguments about what the KLA did or did not do are irrelivent and justify nothing. They were not the representitives of thre Kosovan people, Ibrahim Rogova and his party, who persued a policy of pacifism were. A fact reflected in their land slide election victory post war.

The parrallels between the Irish and Kosovan struggles for identitly and freedom are meriad. It is strange that some people on this Island cannot see that and choose instead to justify oppression. A low ebb that I hope does not relect on all of us.
What a pile of Albano-centric rubbish!

First of all, Illyrian-Albanian link is a speculation vented by Albanians with NO PROOF whatsoever. The only population indigenous to the region and backed up by written sources are Serbs. Anyway - they are living there since 13th century - long enough to be considered indiginous on any measure. Other interesting question - if Albanians were "indiginous" how come Kosovo is full of orthodox churches dating 13-14th century, and was never part of Albania? Or are you implying that Albanian state emerged only in 20th century?

The situation is more reminiscent of Lankashire Bangladeshis, who came to work and stayed than of some mystical "indiginous population" where there was none as recently as 18th century!
 
G

Gadjodilo

Zyklon B said:
Gadjodilo said:
seabhcan said:
While you indulge in your geo-political ramblings and conspiracy theorising from the safety of your cosy West European armchair, might I point out that the Kosovans overwhelmingly welcome the protection they receive from NATO. It's their only defence from the same treatment that the Serbs dished out in all Muslim males in Srebrenica.

Mass Extermination.
What's your point, Zyklon-B?
 


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