• Due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software, some users were "banned" when they tried to change their passwords at the end of February. This does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you were affected by this, please us viua the Contact us link in the footer.

The left in Britain is being destroyed by Trotskyism


Honecker

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 19, 2012
Messages
4,777
Britain is a period of continuous stagnation with a right wing government more concerned with keeping inflation low and corporate profits up rather than creating jobs and growth. The NHS is gradually being dismantled, welfare destroyed while giving tax cuts to the richest. All this should be favourable for a rise in support for socialism or least social democracy (and I don't mean the neo-liberalism of New Labour). However the biggest winners of the local elections in Britain were UKIP, a party to the right of the Tories. UKIP would hammer working class communities and create a total plutocracy in Britain if they had the opportunity yet these are the people winning support in working class communities like South Shields.

One of the reasons why working class people don't trust the left is because of Trotskyism. Trotskyism is an extremist far left ideology that demands cult like discipline of members. The biggest Trotskyist sect is the Socialist Workers' Party (SWP). The SWP scare the hell out of working class people with their demands for more immigration, abortions at 39 weeks and their constant pandering to muslim extremists. Rather than try to understand the working class, the SWP are more likely to heckle them for being backwards, racist, bigoted and sexist. The SWP will try and hijack and destroy any other rivals on the socialist left as they believe they are the one true party. They have a horrendous reputation for driving people away from the left and for recruiting lunatics. Total loyalty to the party leadership is demanded and no one can have an independent opinion. They function more like a cult than a party. Members are forced to go onto the streets and sell dreadful papers, recruit anyone they can find and heckle and destroy any left rivals they encounter.

But why would the SWP behave like this when it does so much damage to the left? In all likely hood the SWP has long been infiltrated by British intelligence. One former MI5 agent said British intelligence had 25 people inside the SWP. The purpose of this is to use the SWP to keep the radical left weak, divided and discredited. MI5 also use Trotskyism and the SWP for international relations purposes. Today the SWP can be seen supporting the "rebels" in Syria. They were the first to demand the "rebels" in Libya were armed by the west. During the Cold War the SWP would viciously denounce the USSR, East Germany, Cuba etc. They would denounce these countries with more venom than the tories would. In the 80s they even supported the right wing catholic Lech Walesa and the Taliban simply because they weakened the USSR. Today the SWP mainly focus on destroying or co-opting any grassroots organisations on the radical left and denouncing any left organisations they don't control.

If the socialist left wants to regain any credibility with the working class then they must get rid of the lunatics and agent provacateurs who run the SWP.
 


Seanie Lemass

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2010
Messages
20,128
I agree with you regarding the SWP but I will make a wild guess that you would prefer to see the revivial of the good old CPGB?

A party which, like the SWP, was infiltrated from top to bottom by MI5. And which like the SWP, alienated working class people by its erratic politics which veered from ultra-leftism to British patriotism, ending as a sad sort of social democratic think tank.
 

Analyzer

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2011
Messages
46,189
Contrary to what the Trotskeyites of today think, Trotsky was not a pacifist.

In fact he was agressive, militant, and very much pre-occuppied with his own sense of righteousness. He definitely had no need for empathy, or compassion. He was a ruthless tyranical meglamaniac.

His viciousness towards dissent, when he was in power was uncompromising.

This is something that modern Trots seem very good at forgetting. His temper and selfishness made him many enemies before Stalin decided to evict him.
 

Mr. Magpie

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
394
Britain is a period of continuous stagnation with a right wing government more concerned with keeping inflation low and corporate profits up rather than creating jobs and growth. The NHS is gradually being dismantled, welfare destroyed while giving tax cuts to the richest. All this should be favourable for a rise in support for socialism or least social democracy (and I don't mean the neo-liberalism of New Labour). However the biggest winners of the local elections in Britain were UKIP, a party to the right of the Tories. UKIP would hammer working class communities and create a total plutocracy in Britain if they had the opportunity yet these are the people winning support in working class communities like South Shields.

One of the reasons why working class people don't trust the left is because of Trotskyism. Trotskyism is an extremist far left ideology that demands cult like discipline of members. The biggest Trotskyist sect is the Socialist Workers' Party (SWP). The SWP scare the hell out of working class people with their demands for more immigration, abortions at 39 weeks and their constant pandering to muslim extremists. Rather than try to understand the working class, the SWP are more likely to heckle them for being backwards, racist, bigoted and sexist. The SWP will try and hijack and destroy any other rivals on the socialist left as they believe they are the one true party. They have a horrendous reputation for driving people away from the left and for recruiting lunatics. Total loyalty to the party leadership is demanded and no one can have an independent opinion. They function more like a cult than a party. Members are forced to go onto the streets and sell dreadful papers, recruit anyone they can find and heckle and destroy any left rivals they encounter.

But why would the SWP behave like this when it does so much damage to the left? In all likely hood the SWP has long been infiltrated by British intelligence. One former MI5 agent said British intelligence had 25 people inside the SWP. The purpose of this is to use the SWP to keep the radical left weak, divided and discredited. MI5 also use Trotskyism and the SWP for international relations purposes. Today the SWP can be seen supporting the "rebels" in Syria. They were the first to demand the "rebels" in Libya were armed by the west. During the Cold War the SWP would viciously denounce the USSR, East Germany, Cuba etc. They would denounce these countries with more venom than the tories would. In the 80s they even supported the right wing catholic Lech Walesa and the Taliban simply because they weakened the USSR. Today the SWP mainly focus on destroying or co-opting any grassroots organisations on the radical left and denouncing any left organisations they don't control.

If the socialist left wants to regain any credibility with the working class then they must get rid of the lunatics and agent provacateurs who run the SWP.

This is an incoherent disjointed rambling mess.

Is it Trotskyism (the philosophy), the SWP, the lunatics in the party or the MI5 agent provocateurs that are destroying Trotskyism or the SWP?
 

Analyzer

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2011
Messages
46,189
Was Moan Burton a Trot at one stage ?

I remember Vincent Browne asking her that question, and he avoided answering it directly.
 

Eire1976

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Messages
14,152
Britain is a period of continuous stagnation with a right wing government more concerned with keeping inflation low and corporate profits up rather than creating jobs and growth. The NHS is gradually being dismantled, welfare destroyed while giving tax cuts to the richest. All this should be favourable for a rise in support for socialism or least social democracy (and I don't mean the neo-liberalism of New Labour). However the biggest winners of the local elections in Britain were UKIP, a party to the right of the Tories. UKIP would hammer working class communities and create a total plutocracy in Britain if they had the opportunity yet these are the people winning support in working class communities like South Shields.

One of the reasons why working class people don't trust the left is because of Trotskyism. Trotskyism is an extremist far left ideology that demands cult like discipline of members. The biggest Trotskyist sect is the Socialist Workers' Party (SWP). The SWP scare the hell out of working class people with their demands for more immigration, abortions at 39 weeks and their constant pandering to muslim extremists. Rather than try to understand the working class, the SWP are more likely to heckle them for being backwards, racist, bigoted and sexist. The SWP will try and hijack and destroy any other rivals on the socialist left as they believe they are the one true party. They have a horrendous reputation for driving people away from the left and for recruiting lunatics. Total loyalty to the party leadership is demanded and no one can have an independent opinion. They function more like a cult than a party. Members are forced to go onto the streets and sell dreadful papers, recruit anyone they can find and heckle and destroy any left rivals they encounter.

But why would the SWP behave like this when it does so much damage to the left? In all likely hood the SWP has long been infiltrated by British intelligence. One former MI5 agent said British intelligence had 25 people inside the SWP. The purpose of this is to use the SWP to keep the radical left weak, divided and discredited. MI5 also use Trotskyism and the SWP for international relations purposes. Today the SWP can be seen supporting the "rebels" in Syria. They were the first to demand the "rebels" in Libya were armed by the west. During the Cold War the SWP would viciously denounce the USSR, East Germany, Cuba etc. They would denounce these countries with more venom than the tories would. In the 80s they even supported the right wing catholic Lech Walesa and the Taliban simply because they weakened the USSR. Today the SWP mainly focus on destroying or co-opting any grassroots organisations on the radical left and denouncing any left organisations they don't control.

If the socialist left wants to regain any credibility with the working class then they must get rid of the lunatics and agent provacateurs who run the SWP.
Power to the people, freedom for Tooting
 

Seanie Lemass

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2010
Messages
20,128
Was Moan Burton a Trot at one stage ?

I remember Vincent Browne asking her that question, and he avoided answering it directly.

Not sure about Burton. She certainly has that whining air of sanctimoniousness to suggest she may have been. Alex White definitely was. And of one of the madder sects, the League for a Workers Republic. I remember being handed one of their leaflets which called for the arsenals of the army to be opened and handed over to workers militias. I think there was a postal strike on at the time :)
 

Analyzer

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2011
Messages
46,189
Not sure about Burton. She certainly has that whining air of sanctimoniousness to suggest she may have been. Alex White definitely was. And of one of the madder sects, the League for a Workers Republic. I remember being handed one of their leaflets which called for the arsenals of the army to be opened and handed over to workers militias. I think there was a postal strike on at the time :)
Thankfully Alex Shyte never got into any serious position of influence. Oh...hold on a minute !!!

Given that he shoved Shortall's criticism of the alco-business under the carpet, I think it is abundantly clear that he is not bothered by the corporatocracy any more.
 

Nemesiscorporation

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 2, 2011
Messages
14,180
Contrary to what the Trotskeyites of today think, Trotsky was not a pacifist.

In fact he was agressive, militant, and very much pre-occuppied with his own sense of righteousness. He definitely had no need for empathy, or compassion. He was a ruthless tyranical meglamaniac.

His viciousness towards dissent, when he was in power was uncompromising.

This is something that modern Trots seem very good at forgetting. His temper and selfishness made him many enemies before Stalin decided to evict him.
Have you ever met a Trotskeyite who tolerated dissent of any description?
 

Kevin Doyle

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 9, 2007
Messages
11,066
However the biggest winners of the local elections in Britain were UKIP, a party to the right of the Tories. UKIP would hammer working class communities and create a total plutocracy in Britain if they had the opportunity yet these are the people winning support in working class communities like South Shields.
I don't think you should view UKIPs success as an electoral endorsement of right wing economic policies. (bear in mind the Tories have so far taken a bit of a thumping) They are a protest party in essence, vehemently opposed to UK membership of the EU. They've been very successful at blaming the EU for Britain's woes, that was the plank of their election campaign with everything else taking a back seat.
 

Clanrickard

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
32,947
The left is destroying itself because it is a load of rubbish that appeals to the jealous and the small minded.
 

sauntersplash

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
3,464
Was Moan Burton a Trot at one stage ?

I remember Vincent Browne asking her that question, and he avoided answering it directly.
I think you had to call yourself a Trot if you fancied men with beards. Those were the days alright.
 

ffc

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
5,167
The left is destroying itself because it is a load of rubbish that appeals to the jealous and the small minded.
The most succesful and popular radical left wing politician of the last 30 years is Ken Livingstone. Red Ken was at the forefront of progressive politics in the 80's, advancing policies which are now seen as mainstream, gay rights, peace talks with Sinn Fein, cheap access to good quality public transport, community policing, comprehensive education. He instigated these policies to great public approval throughout the Thatcher years. In fact, he was so succesful that the old hag was forced to abolish him. His parliamentary career was failry low key, but as London Mayor he again initiated radical and popular policies in the capital.
He did this by working with the established political structures, forging alliances with unusual groups, tories, islamists, rich american businessmen and using them to further his agenda.

Britain is ripe for a bit of radical socialism, but it need to be realistic and the SWP types need to wake up and follow Ken's example.
 

ruamruam

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 11, 2010
Messages
586
The opening thread reminds me of an acquaintance of mine in the late 1980s who was a member of the Workers Party. He was going out with a friend of mine. If you were in his company for more than five minutes he would bring the conversation round to the trots, provos and crypto provos (the crypto provos were worse than the trots and provos) who ran everything from the unions, the Media and probably even the local sweetshop. The first time you met him you would try to have a discussion with him but you soon learnt there was no point. He would just rant and rave against the counter revolutionaries and if you didn't agree with him he would abuse you. I tried to tolerate him because he was going out with my friend.

Whenever he would try to start up a conversation about politics, and he could talk about nothing else, you would not engage. Your eyes would glaze over and move out of his company as soon as you could. One night a very mild mannered friend of mine got into an argument with him and after being called every name under the sun picked up his pint and poured it over your man's head and walked off.

My friend saw sense after a few months and dumped him. Never had to have another conversation with him after that.
 

sauntersplash

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
3,464
The opening thread reminds me of an acquaintance of mine in the late 1980s who was a member of the Workers Party. He was going out with a friend of mine. If you were in his company for more than five minutes he would bring the conversation round to the trots, provos and crypto provos (the crypto provos were worse than the trots and provos) who ran everything from the unions, the Media and probably even the local sweetshop. The first time you met him you would try to have a discussion with him but you soon learnt there was no point. He would just rant and rave against the counter revolutionaries and if you didn't agree with him he would abuse you. I tried to tolerate him because he was going out with my friend.

Whenever he would try to start up a conversation about politics, and he could talk about nothing else, you would not engage. Your eyes would glaze over and move out of his company as soon as you could. One night a very mild mannered friend of mine got into an argument with him and after being called every name under the sun picked up his pint and poured it over your man's head and walked off.

My friend saw sense after a few months and dumped him. Never had to have another conversation with him after that.
...and now he spends his days being 95% of the posters on Politics.ie?
 

Honecker

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 19, 2012
Messages
4,777
The opening thread reminds me of an acquaintance of mine in the late 1980s who was a member of the Workers Party. He was going out with a friend of mine. If you were in his company for more than five minutes he would bring the conversation round to the trots, provos and crypto provos (the crypto provos were worse than the trots and provos) who ran everything from the unions, the Media and probably even the local sweetshop. The first time you met him you would try to have a discussion with him but you soon learnt there was no point. He would just rant and rave against the counter revolutionaries and if you didn't agree with him he would abuse you. I tried to tolerate him because he was going out with my friend.

Whenever he would try to start up a conversation about politics, and he could talk about nothing else, you would not engage. Your eyes would glaze over and move out of his company as soon as you could. One night a very mild mannered friend of mine got into an argument with him and after being called every name under the sun picked up his pint and poured it over your man's head and walked off.

My friend saw sense after a few months and dumped him. Never had to have another conversation with him after that.
I enjoyed that anecdote even if it is an attempt to insult me.
 

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top