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The merits of a lottery style Diversity Visa to EU

Itsalaugh

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What standard to set Sync, i'd suggest the optinum level that will discourage or at least greatly reduce illegal migration to EU. That will be lower than America at present. Hopefully Africa sees some alleviation to entenched poverty and the standards rise. Proportionally many from outside Africa should have higher education, skill status.
 


Sync

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What standard to set Sync, i'd suggest the optinum level that will discourage or at least greatly reduce illegal migration to EU. That will be lower than America at present. Hopefully Africa sees some alleviation to entenched poverty and the standards rise. Proportionally many from outside Africa should have higher education, skill status.
You seem to be starting from a position of “I want to see migration fall. Something must be done. The lottery is something. Let’s use the lottery.”

There’s so little thinking involved in it, so little understanding of what drives illegal migration at the moment and the purpose and operation of the US system that it’s not really possible to go any further.
 

Clanrickard

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What standard to set Sync, i'd suggest the optinum level that will discourage or at least greatly reduce illegal migration to EU.
But that won't happen as Sync has pointed out. It is the unskilled who generally try and sneak in as they would not qualify for a lottery anyway.
 

Itsalaugh

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You seem to be starting from a position of “I want to see migration fall. Something must be done. The lottery is something. Let’s use the lottery.”

There’s so little thinking involved in it, so little understanding of what drives illegal migration at the moment and the purpose and operation of the US system that it’s not really possible to go any further.
I'd say there's many factors driving illegal immigration, the main one being increased opportunities for the ambitious. I'm offering up a non expert proposal. The flow seems to have diminished lately but it ebbs and flows since Western European countries greatly curtailed legal migration in 1990.
That's the paradox of Europe's response to the migrant crisis: By making entry tougher, it makes illegal entry more commonplace. "Stricter immigration policies," Dr. Mbaye says, "might not be effective, because they deter potential legal migrants more than potential illegal migrants
The real reasons why migrants risk everything for a new life elsewhere - The Globe and Mail
This well researched article suggests African migrants are pretty well educated but are only intent on getting to specific destinations in Europe where they avail of existing networks. My proposal is unlikely to suit their purpose.
Undermining racist xenophopes across Europe while offering some increased opportunities for migrants, which hopefully greatly decreases the harrowing scenes that should distress us is my muddled motivation.
 

Lagertha

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But that won't happen as Sync has pointed out. It is the unskilled who generally try and sneak in as they would not qualify for a lottery anyway.
Exactly. When you see boats full of illegal male migrants, mostly from developing countries, being trafficked in aboard NGO people trafficking ships, you can tell by looking at the guys that not only would they slit your throat for looking at them the wrong way, but that there is no possibility whatsoever of them ever doing an honest days work. The days of plentiful low/no skilled jobs is over, these lads are often illiterate, have backwards views on women and LGBT people and believe in a pedophile death cult to a frightening extreme. All they have to do is make it onboard and NGO boat, get near Malta and Malta will wait while countries who are whoring themselves to Brussels, like the Irish government are doing, offer to take some of them in.

We have taken a percentage of these men off every single one of these boats while Malta has taken none at all. They aren't screened because there's no way to screen someone who has no ID. They are automatically granted asylum so they skip Direct Provision and are skipped straight to the top of the housing queue.
 

Clanrickard

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We have taken a percentage of these men off every single one of these boats while Malta has taken none at all. They aren't screened because there's no way to screen someone who has no ID. They are automatically granted asylum so they skip Direct Provision and are skipped straight to the top of the housing queue.
Not true at all. We have not taken men off every single boat. Most asylum seekers come from camps in Italy and are screened before hand. We have offered to take 4000 and we have barely taken any. I take your point as to the extremists but these tend not to be arriving in boats. They tend to often be respectable types on the outside and linked to extremist networks.
 

recedite

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Under this proposal Poland would receive approximately 35,000 legal migrants every year which is really a negligible amount, even over a decade.
Legal migration has to be shared across the EU. The problem thus far is that illegal migrants are nearly entirely gravitating to about 10 countries.
My example Poland should be able to absorb 35,000. Dispersed across the country that should eliminate ghettos.
Why are you so keen on Poland being forced to accept your plan? Are you Polish, or do you just dislike the Polish?
Why does legal migration have to be shared across the EU?

Each country is in charge of its own legal immigration policy. Ireland could adopt your plan right now, if it wanted to.
You should lobby your local TD instead of trying to tell Poland what to do.
 

Sync

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Eeeeeh. That's not reasonable either though. We're the EU, we're a union. Is it truely reasonable that Italy and Greece needs to deal with high level of asylum seekers just because of their geography in that union? Spreading out the seekers may not be the solution, but a solution is needed other than saying it's Italy's problem.
 

recedite

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Eeeeeh. That's not reasonable either though. We're the EU, we're a union. Is it truely reasonable that Italy and Greece needs to deal with high level of asylum seekers just because of their geography in that union? Spreading out the seekers may not be the solution, but a solution is needed other than saying it's Italy's problem.
Thats a completely different issue.
OP is talking about a new "diversity visa" legal immigration program.
Asylum seekers would still continue to arrive outside of the new program.

Besides, Italy has largely dealt with its problem at this stage. One of the solutions involved telling the Irish Navy to fook off and stop ferrying illegal immigrants from Libya across to Sicily.
 

Sync

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Oh the OP's no good and doesn't address any of the things we're talking about.
 

Roll_On

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Perhaps making it easier/more affordable for Europeans to have children and then making work pay would be better than mass importation of labour.
 

Watcher2

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Presently the only access an impoverished but ambitious, productive citizen of Africa or the Indian sub-continent is to enter illegally and claim bogus asylum status. Millions are contemplating the perilous Mediterranean sea crossing and the flow continues despite the harrowing consequences of many thousands drowning. The majority of Europeans acknowledge the necessity of legal migration but with limits. Obviously Europe can't absorb the numbers who'd wish to migrate and long-term a greater international engagement is required to increase the rate of economic expansion in marginalised counties.

The US has for 3 decades had a succesful Diversity Immigrant Visa.
Diversity Immigrant Visa - Wikipedia
Should Europe follow with a variation of this scheme but with greater intake?
I think greater intake - 500,000 total, visa recipient and partner - with an age limit, say under 35 and the succesful recipient must reside for at least 7 years in one specified EU country desiginated with visa proportionally distributed, whereupon they can avail of 'freedom of movement' across the soon to be 27 member nations.
Under this proposal Poland would receive approximately 35,000 legal migrants every year which is really a negligible amount, even over a decade.
Interesting. Your whole thread is about proliferating diversity but yet you are keen to encourage ageism and restrict the diversity you say you are seeking.:unsure:
 

McTell

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No
It's a 2-way street, because the 3rd world needs people of ability to get their economies going (can't all be done by our nice NGOs, because many of their staff are unemployable).

Yet, these are the people europe wants, being the best of the bunch.

When they come over here as a refugee with a degree, and end up working in a car wash in donegal on €5/day, nobody really benefits, do they?

A lot of the "islamic terrorism" in europe in the past decade has been people coming here and not succeeding, and then kicking off in the name of some group or other. They were never terrorists, just unlucky or unsuccessful.

So on balance, we should educate them to do something needed in their home country. How many irish would have emigrated if they had an education to do something useful here? Our "free" secondary education only started in the late 1960s.
 

Dame_Enda

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The tide is going on out Western support for the diversity-cult in immigration. Cohesion is undermined if society is excessively diverse.
 

Itsalaugh

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The tide is going on out Western support for the diversity-cult in immigration. Cohesion is undermined if society is excessively diverse.
I replied to largeta in post 17 but similiar to you now.
You really dont get the politics of this. There's a Liberal polar oppisite position to that is equally fervent, the sanctity cities in America. What I'm proposing is a compromise because given the population growth projections for Africa and the less developed Asian states there is likely to be increased migration unless the EU goes so totally hardcore in prevention that we basically ditch humanism. 25k drownings may well be tripled in next 30 years. To win unaminous support for a more stringent policy on immigration than an alternative will be required and whatever reformed immigration policy that they come.up with will also need to be attractive enough that it will discourage illegal migration. So everyone entering illegally finger printed etc, and then immediately denied.participation in the DV program.
 
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