The #MeToo movement - justice or witchhunt?

Dame_Enda

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The #MeToo movement is experiencing something of a backlash from some prominent older women. Margaret Atwood, author of "The Handmaids Tale", is being called a "bad feminist" for signing a petition with scores of other writers calling for University of British Columbia to release records of an investigation into a fired professor, amid fears the allegations against him were false.

This comes after Catherine DeNeuve argued men should be allowed to "hit on" women. About an hour ago she clarified her comments, expressing fears of a purging of the arts based on contemporary values, such as Leonardo da Vinci and Gaugin. She also pointed out that in 1972 she signed a petition in defense of abortion rights. She says (same link) " I don’t like this characteristic of our times whereby everyone feels they have the right to judge, to arbitrate, to condemn".

So is #MeToo a necessary process of accountability for abusive men, or a witchhunt or somewhere in between?

Should social media censor tweets judged as making unproven allegations of sexual harrassment? Or would that injure freedom of speech and allow the guilty to hide behind lawyers?
 


FOURGREENFIELDS

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Liam Neeson hit the right tone the other night, it's a witchhunt. I have no doubt that some women were harrassed and worse but we are living in a society now where the narrative is being directed by fundamental feminists and man haters.
 

FOURGREENFIELDS

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I also believe money is a big factor in a lot of this. I mean women crying in front of the media saying "X,Y,Z touched my shoulder in 1974 and it has ruined my life" is just ridiculous. There are also the legal coffin chasers who see dollar signs too. The worst part is that is it undermining legitimate sexual accusations and crimes.
 

Mercurial

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I for one am looking forward to pages upon pages of men telling us whether women are taking accusations of sexism, harassment, rape and sexual assault too seriously.


PS - The reason we have the phrase "witch hunt" is not because the number of witches putting curses on innocent New Englanders was exaggerated. It's because there's no such thing as a witch. Unless you think rapists are figment of women's imagination (this being p.ie, I wouldn't put it past some of you) maybe see whether you can choose a more apt metaphor to describe what you think is going on.
 

mr_anderson

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Liam Neeson hit the right tone the other night, it's a witchhunt. I have no doubt that some women were harrassed and worse but we are living in a society now where the narrative is being directed by fundamental feminists and man haters.

That's the problem when an idea gets hijacked.
The idea becomes a 'cause'.
And that creates a bandwagon every vacuous celeb is too afraid not to jump on, lest they get accused of being a woman-hater.

I see Kirk Douglas made a special appearance at the Golden Globes the other day.

https://www.theblaze.com/video/watch-this-hollywood-icon-was-accused-of-rape-why-did-the-globes-honor-him
 

Mercurial

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I also believe money is a big factor in a lot of this. I mean women crying in front of the media saying "X,Y,Z touched my shoulder in 1974 and it has ruined my life" is just ridiculous. There are also the legal coffin chasers who see dollar signs too. The worst part is that is it undermining legitimate sexual accusations and crimes.
But accusing women who speak out about their abuse of being motivated by money doesn't?
 

Spirit Of Newgrange

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Interestedhopeful

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I for one am looking forward to pages upon pages of men telling us whether women are taking accusations of sexism, harassment, rape and sexual assault too seriously.


PS - The reason we have the phrase "witch hunt" is not because the number of witches putting curses on innocent New Englanders was exaggerated. It's because there's no such thing as a witch. Unless you think rapists are figment of women's imagination (this being p.ie, I wouldn't put it past some of you) maybe see whether you can choose a more apt metaphor to describe what you think is going on.
Witch hunt in the same way we've seen liberals swarm over other issues. It's muddying the waters between crime and poor behaviour, giving "victims" of inappropriate remarks or poor dating attempts a feeling of entitlement on par with victims of brutal rapes and sexual assaults. It is doing no service for relations between men and women.

Thanks to Mercurial for phrasing it far better than I ever could: women are taking accusations of sexism, harassment, rape and sexual assault too seriously. My view is that if they believe they have been victims of a harassment, rape or sexual assault they can go through the legal channels.
 

Sync

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Unless you believe there hasn’t been any cases of assault/rape etc in the industry at all then it couldn’t be defined as a witchunt. So you either don’t understand the definition of the word, or you’re introducing an scenario you know to be false (given the admission of assaults that have already taken place) for some weird reason.
 

silverharp

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given that we have had to put up with decades now of stomach churning lecturing coming out of Hollywood I think its great as nobody will come out looking good.
 

Mercurial

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Witch hunt in the same way we've seen liberals swarm over other issues. It's muddying the waters between crime and poor behaviour, giving "victims" of inappropriate remarks or poor dating attempts a feeling of entitlement on par with victims of brutal rapes and sexual assaults. It is doing no service for relations between men and women.

Thanks to Mercurial for phrasing it far better than I ever could: women are taking accusations of sexism, harassment, rape and sexual assault too seriously. My view is that if they believe they have been victims of a harassment, rape or sexual assault they can go through the legal channels.
Then your view is a pretty naive one, if you think that that's a simple matter for victims of abuse, especially when the perpetrators are powerful industry figures like Weinstein.
 

FOURGREENFIELDS

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I would also add that in my 30 years of the workplace some of the worst bullying, victimisation and harrassment I have seen has came from women, often on other women but mostly on men.
 

JCR

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I've heard of women going on twitter to do the me too thing as a show of solidarity which is fine but they really have nothing to be upset about themselves so some random harmless event is being called some form of threat or abuse and that's where the thing breaks down. There's no doubt that's a problem, especially when it seems to be developing into a guilt until proven innocent type thing.

The Mark Wahlberg incident about Williams being paid less than Wahlberg because he obviously has a better lawyers is also an example. Either he gets a better contract drawn up from the start or he knew the ball was in his court regarding extra pay for reshoots. But its then made out to be discrimination rather than bad business by Williams.
 
D

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Liam Neeson hit the right tone the other night, it's a witchhunt. I have no doubt that some women were harrassed and worse but we are living in a society now where the narrative is being directed by fundamental feminists and man haters.
He absolutely picked the wrong example in Dustin Hoffman.
 

MaireadKelly1

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Liam Neeson hit the right tone the other night, it's a witchhunt. I have no doubt that some women were harrassed and worse but we are living in a society now where the narrative is being directed by fundamental feminists and man haters.
He hit the right tone until he declared himself 'on the fence' re Dustin Hoffman accusations.
 

mr_anderson

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But accusing women who speak out about their abuse of being motivated by money doesn't?

The problem with alleged offences which are historical in nature is that they are very difficult to prove.
So the woman can throw mud, which an innocent man may find impossible to disprove.

Here's something for you to ponder.

A former business partner, Harth alleges Trump forcibly kissed her on the lips and groped her breasts and grabbed her genitals, in what she referred to in a 1997 lawsuit as "attempted rape". On a previous occasion, she alleges, he groped her under the table during dinner with colleagues at the Plaza Hotel.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/nov/30/donald-trump-sexual-misconduct-allegations-full-list

So what does an attempted rape victim do to her alleged assailant, Donald Trump ?
Well she wrote him an email.

In it, she outlined how he made her life a living hell, how she had never recovered, how even the sight of him sends her into tears as it brings back all the hurt.
Oh wait, that's not what she said at all ...

“Hi Donald, you are doing a tremendous job of shaking things up in the United States. I am definitely on Team Trump as so many others are,” Jill Harth wrote Trump in an Oct. 1, 2015, email sent to him through his New York company’s headquarters.


“I can’t watch television without seeing you or hearing your name everywhere! It’s a good thing for sure but PLEASE let me do your makeup for a television interview, a debate, a photo session, anything!” Harth wrote.


“It kills me to see you looking too orange and with white circles under the eyes. I will get your skin looking smoother and even toned,” she added, boasting she would “sculpt your face” to look good on high-definition television sets.
In another email seeking to meet Trump personally, Harth offered to be a campaign surrogate willing to tell voters how Trump “helped me with my self-confidence and all positive things about how he is with women.”
Trump accuser lobbied to be his makeup artist months before her sex assault allegations roiled campaign | TheHill

It's all very confusing, isn't it ?
 

Interestedhopeful

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Then your view is a pretty naive one, if you think that that's a simple matter for victims of abuse, especially when the perpetrators are powerful industry figures like Weinstein.
There are plenty of people who love to see the powerful fall, if only to be hoisted into their place like many MeToo advocates want. The mob is out of control and it has become another mass movement to insert a liberal holy doctrine into popular culture that you cannot dare question or you'll be torn to shreds. I oppose sexual impropriety of any kind, criminal or non-criminal, but we'll never agree on this Mercurial.
 
D

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I'll just leave this here...

Taken IV: Open mouth insert foot.

Liam Neeson has really gone way down in my estimation of him. During an interview on last night's Late Late, he said that what Dustin Hoffman has been accused of is "childhood stuff" and elaborated:



Just so we are clear on what Hoffman is being accused of...

He allegedly groped a woman's breasts.
He allegedly exposed himself to a minor.
He allegedly penetrated a woman's vagina with his fingers while waiting off stage.

Now, while I do understand that some of the recent accusations may be stretching the limit of what is sexual assault, Neeson specifically commented on Hoffman's cases. That's some childhood he had.

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/jan/13/liam-neeson-says-harassment-allegations-have-become-a-witch-hunt
 

Mercurial

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The problem with alleged offences which are historical in nature is that they are very difficult to prove.
So the woman can throw mud, which an innocent man may find impossible to disprove.

Here's something for you to ponder.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/nov/30/donald-trump-sexual-misconduct-allegations-full-list

So what does an attempted rape victim do to her alleged assailant, Donald Trump ?
Well she wrote him an email.

In it, she outlined how he made her life a living hell, how she had never recovered, how even the sight of him sends her into tears as it brings back all the hurt.
Oh wait, that's not what she said at all ...



Trump accuser lobbied to be his makeup artist months before her sex assault allegations roiled campaign | TheHill

It's all very confusing, isn't it ?
So, you wanted to argue that sometimes men can be falsely accused of abuse, and your first thought was to offer an example of a man who has been accused by dozens of women of the full spectrum of creepy behaviour from making inappropriate remarks to literal rape* and who even admitted to sexual assault on tape...



*one of those accusations being from his wife, before she changed her mind because apparently she's the one woman involved who wasn't motivated by money...
 

Mercurial

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There are plenty of people who love to see the powerful fall, if only to be hoisted into their place like many MeToo advocates want. The mob is out of control and it has become another mass movement to insert a liberal holy doctrine into popular culture that you cannot dare question or you'll be torn to shreds. I oppose sexual impropriety of any kind, criminal or non-criminal, but we'll never agree on this Mercurial.
Since when is opposition to sexual assault a liberal policy? Shouldn't conversatives be just as vocal in their opposition?
 


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