The Munster Technological University - serious questions need answering

jacko

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Extraordinary story in the Examiner about the proposed CIT/ITT Merger

Minutes of a meeting of the HEA where the proposal appears to have been rejected have just appeared after the PAC demanded that they be published.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/serious-concerns-over-cit-and-itt-merger-revealed-454466.html

So the HEA is charged with managing Higher Education in Ireland and advising the govt re same

Apparently the conclusion on the CIT/ITT merger was that the “near unanimous opinion of the meeting was that the proposal should be rejected"

Yet the Govt is pressing ahead despite the fact that the HEA is quite damning of the proposal

Why is this proposal still on the agenda and why were the minutes of the meeting never published until the PAC intervened?
 
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gleeful

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Extraordinary story in the Examiner about the proposed CIT/ITT Merger

Minutes of a meeting of the HEA where the proposal appears to have been rejected have just appeared after the PAC demanded that they be published.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/serious-concerns-over-cit-and-itt-merger-revealed-454466.html

So the HEA is charged with managing Higher Education in Ireland and advising the govt re same

Apparently the conclusion on the CIT/ITT merger was that the “near unanimous opinion of the meeting was that the proposal should be rejected"

The HEA is quite damning of the proposal

Why is this proposal still on the agenda and why were the minutes of the meeting never published until the PAC intervened?
This was always an odd idea. Why would CIT, which has a reasonable and growing reputation, merge with nothing IT 120 km away. It never made any sense.
 

jacko

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This was always an odd idea. Why would CIT, which has a reasonable and growing reputation, merge with nothing IT 120 km away. It never made any sense.
WIT and CIT should be allowed seek TU status on their own without being forced into mergers with Carlow and Tralee.

CIT were forced into the merger

The Experts on the Board of the HEA rejected it

The staff are vehemently opposed to it

Yet for political reasons its being pushed through
 

Deadlock

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WIT and CIT should be allowed seek TU status on their own without being forced into mergers with Carlow and Tralee.

CIT were forced into the merger

The Experts on the Board of the HEA rejected it

The staff are vehemently opposed to it

Yet for political reasons its being pushed through
Back 'in my day' we had two National Institutes of Higher Education, which became U.L. and D.C.U. with time. I'm not sure that N.I.H.E. status still exists on the statute books, but W.I.T. and C.I.T. would make excellent N.I.H.Es, possibly eventually to follow D.C.U. and U.L. into fully fledged university status.
 

Killerbank

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This was always an odd idea. Why would CIT, which has a reasonable and growing reputation, merge with nothing IT 120 km away. It never made any sense.
The same could be said for the forced merger of DIT with the two Institutes of Technology in Tallaght and Blanchardstown. Makes no sense.
 

gleeful

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Back 'in my day' we had two National Institutes of Higher Education, which became U.L. and D.C.U. with time. I'm not sure that N.I.H.E. status still exists on the statute books, but W.I.T. and C.I.T. would make excellent N.I.H.Es, possibly eventually to follow D.C.U. and U.L. into fully fledged university status.
Call me a snob... but why does everything have to be a university? Its foreign student fees thats drives this.
 

Sync

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Only geographically speaking. Otherwise......
But obviously they're not going to concern themselves about "Otherwise". Having specialist techs in Dublin makes a lot of sense. One handles IT, one engineering for example. Specialisation can lead to better results than having 2 separately run units that both try to cover everything.

But the geographical issue is key. And indeed: Merging two units 120km apart is ludicrous.
 

Deadlock

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Call me a snob... but why does everything have to be a university? Its foreign student fees thats drives this.
I agree - not everything needs to be a university. But there is a pronounced difference between staff profiles and student attainment in WIT/CIT compared to many of the ITs. They merit a different status.

Foreign students have the right to the best education their Euros can buy - they pay enough for it.
 

wombat

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But there is a pronounced difference between staff profiles and student attainment in WIT/CIT compared to many of the ITs. They merit a different status.
Not really, I knew a dept head in one of those colleges who had a pass degree, he would not have been considered for a lecturing job in UCD.
 

Deadlock

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Not really, I knew a dept head in one of those colleges who had a pass degree, he would not have been considered for a lecturing job in UCD.
Technically a degree used not be required to lecture in some areas in many ITs - if the applicant has sufficient experience in their field. I'm not sure if that is still the case.
 

Deadlock

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On the general question of Technical Universities - they strike me as a proto-HSE in the Third level education sector. I question the value of money they represent.
 

wombat

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Technically a degree used not be required to lecture in some areas in many ITs - if the applicant has sufficient experience in their field. I'm not sure if that is still the case.
Originally, the RTCs were set up to educate to technologist area and emphasis was on practical experience rather than academic achievement much like the apprenticeship system in traditional trades. Political pressure and local snobbery changed them into ITs with the ability to award degrees. The logical extension of this is to call them universities as has been done in the UK or USA. Unfortunately calling a place a university doesn't make into one.
 

Deadlock

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Originally, the RTCs were set up to educate to technologist area and emphasis was on practical experience rather than academic achievement much like the apprenticeship system in traditional trades. Political pressure and local snobbery changed them into ITs with the ability to award degrees. The logical extension of this is to call them universities as has been done in the UK or USA. Unfortunately calling a place a university doesn't make into one.
Totally agree. The transformation of the old UK polytechnics into Universities did little to improve either their lot or third level education in the U.K post-transformation. I'd leave the ITs alone and as they are in general. I do think however that WIT and CIT deserve a different status for the reasons I discussed before. To me, NIHE status for those two represents a good balance.

I hasten to add, I'm not professionally or academically linked with either.
 

Clanrickard

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We have too many third level colleges as it is.
 

wombat

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I hasten to add, I'm not professionally or academically linked with either.
Neither am I but I have to think of MIT, one of the top universities in the U.S. which never felt the need to change its name.
 


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