THe National Army munument, Glasnevin cemetery.

JohnD66

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Article here on the National Army monument in Glasnevin cemetery, located around Michael Collins' grave, where the remains of 183 Free State soldiers are buried, who lost their lives in the Civil War of 1922-1923.

The Free State’s forgotten soldiers: The National Army monument at Glasnevin. | The Irish Story

A couple of interesting points,first, it took a very long time to get the monument up at all. The graves of the National Army soldiers were unmarked until l1967, when the current monument was put up, listing the names of 183 soldiers buried there in both Irish and English languages. However, as the pro-Treaty authorities never kept an accurate count of the casualties in their army, it is not certain if this cover all the NA soldiers buried in Glasnevin.

Second, about 65% of the dead soldiers were killed in action, mostly towards the start of the Civil War, with 25% dying due to firearms or motor accidents and another ten per cent succumbing to illnesses such as pneumonia or TB.

Thirdly, on the origins of the soldiers, the large majority were from Dublin, generally but not only from working class backgrounds. The next most common place of origin was Belfast.

In so far as could be ascertained, more soldiers had a pre-Truce IRA background than a British Army one, but most recruits had no previous military experience. Most recruits were in their early 20s, but some were still in their teens.

The information was complied with the aid of the recently digitised Military Service Pensions collection at the military archives. Search The Collection | Military Service Pensions Collection | Online Collections | Collections | Military Archives
 


Boss Croker

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However, as the pro-Treaty authorities never kept an accurate count of the casualties in their army, it is not certain if this cover all the NA soldiers buried in Glasnevin.
Disgraceful.
 

Mitsui2

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Second, about 65% of the dead soldiers were killed in action, mostly towards the start of the Civil War, with 25% dying due to firearms or motor accidents and another ten per cent succumbing to illnesses such as pneumonia or TB.
A long time ago now I was researching Civil War events in my local area and located partial archives for the local weekly newspaper from the Civil War years in the National Library. This was back in the days before so much original material was digitised or even put on microfilm, so I wound up reading bound copies of the actual newspapers. One of the things that really astonished me was the number of reports of firearms accidents among National Army troops home on leave - e.g. a rifle left standing in the corner in a kitchen, a younger brother or sister playing with it and - BANG!

There seemed to be some such incident every few weeks, some ultimately harmless but several lethal or, even when non-fatal, obviously maiming. I wondered at the time whether this reflected the youth and inexperience of some of the troops.
 

seanof

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Article here on the National Army monument in Glasnevin cemetery, located around Michael Collins' grave, where the remains of 183 Free State soldiers are buried, who lost their lives in the Civil War of 1922-1923.

A couple of interesting points,first, it took a very long time to get the monument up at all. The graves of the National Army soldiers were unmarked until l1967, when the current monument was put up, listing the names of 183 soldiers buried there in both Irish and English languages. However, as the pro-Treaty authorities never kept an accurate count of the casualties in their army, it is not certain if this cover all the NA soldiers buried in Glasnevin.

Second, about 65% of the dead soldiers were killed in action, mostly towards the start of the Civil War, with 25% dying due to firearms or motor accidents and another ten per cent succumbing to illnesses such as pneumonia or TB.

Thirdly, on the origins of the soldiers, the large majority were from Dublin, generally but not only from working class backgrounds. The next most common place of origin was Belfast.

In so far as could be ascertained, more soldiers had a pre-Truce IRA background than a British Army one, but most recruits had no previous military experience. Most recruits were in their early 20s, but some were still in their teens.

The information was complied with the aid of the recently digitised Military Service Pensions collection at the military archives.
What's your point?
 

JohnD66

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A long time ago now I was researching Civil War events in my local area and located partial archives for the local weekly newspaper from the Civil War years in the National Library. This was back in the days before so much original material was digitised or even put on microfilm, so I wound up reading bound copies of the actual newspapers. One of the things that really astonished me was the number of reports of firearms accidents among National Army troops home on leave - e.g. a rifle left standing in the corner in a kitchen, a younger brother or sister playing with it and - BANG!

There seemed to be some such incident every few weeks, some ultimately harmless but several lethal or, even when non-fatal, obviously maiming. I wondered at the time whether this reflected the youth and inexperience of some of the troops.
It did, coupled with the fact that they were recruited and put into the field with basically no training in weapons safety (or anything else for that matter). Sean McMahon the Army Quartermaster General said that the recruits’ standard was often not of the best’. ‘They had to be rushed into position before even being uniformed, to say nothing about being trained’ and some were ‘taught the mechanism of a rifle on the way to a fight’.

Throw in the fact that only a minority of officers NCOs had any formal military training and it was recipe for disaster. Extrapolating from the Glasnevin figures, probably at least 200 of the NA's 800 fatalities in the Civil War were accidents and probably another 100 due to illness (heating, food and logistics not being great in the NA either throughout the war), leaving about 500 killed in action.
 

cricket

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A long time ago now I was researching Civil War events in my local area and located partial archives for the local weekly newspaper from the Civil War years in the National Library. This was back in the days before so much original material was digitised or even put on microfilm, so I wound up reading bound copies of the actual newspapers. One of the things that really astonished me was the number of reports of firearms accidents among National Army troops home on leave - e.g. a rifle left standing in the corner in a kitchen, a younger brother or sister playing with it and - BANG!

There seemed to be some such incident every few weeks, some ultimately harmless but several lethal or, even when non-fatal, obviously maiming. I wondered at the time whether this reflected the youth and inexperience of some of the troops.
Prior to the Easter Rising, didn't Seán Lemass kill a younger brother with an accidental discharge from a gun in his home ?
 

clonard marxist

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Hilarious & ironic from someone who believes the PIRA were the legitimate army of Ireland.
The Free State Army were a common wealth army, equipped and financed directly by Britain and employed to put down a colonial insurgency [sic]. These are historical facts.
Why shouldn't the British Legion take care of their graves?

As for thinking the Provos are the 'legitimate' army of Ireland, where are you getting that from?
 

Boss Croker

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The Free State Army were a common wealth army, equipped and financed directly by Britain and employed to put down a colonial insurgency [sic]. These are historical facts.
Why shouldn't the British Legion take care of their graves?

As for thinking the Provos are the 'legitimate' army of Ireland, where are you getting that from?
A Clonard Marxist FFS!
 

runwiththewind

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Prior to the Easter Rising, didn't Seán Lemass kill a younger brother with an accidental discharge from a gun in his home ?
Yes, during the Rising when he returned home for a short while.
 

McTell

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Just about everything in Glasnevin celebrates us moving back in time and away from reality.

No civil war if Collins had not lied to everyone in 1921-22.
 

Talk Back

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Do the British Legion not do anything to help in the upkeep of this monument?
I thought they might be involved given that the origins of Free State army/defence force were Crown Forces set up under the terms of the treaty in opposition to Óglaigh na hÉireann, the legal and legitimate army of the Irish Republic, on Jan 30th 1922.
 

Antóin Mac Comháin

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Hilarious & ironic from someone who believes the PIRA were the legitimate army of Ireland.
The Free State Army were a common wealth army, equipped and financed directly by Britain and employed to put down a colonial insurgency [sic]. These are historical facts.

Why shouldn't the British Legion take care of their graves?

As for thinking the Provos are the 'legitimate' army of Ireland, where are you getting that from?
An Saorstat - August - 29 - 1922

Forgive Them - The Dying Hero's Last Words by R.H.

''His last moments were worthy of that selfless life of heroic nobleness. When I think of the past five years, of all he accomplished for us, of all he suffered and endured for us, and then of his being slain - when I think of these things, I do believe that never since its first Divine expression nearly 2,000 years ago has there been a more Christ-like utterance than those last words of his on earth: 'Forgive Them'.


Commandant-General Tom Maguire

Commandant-General Tom Maguire

Tom Maguire, Tomás Mag Uidhir, 28 March 1892 – 5 July 1993, was an Irish Republican Army volunteer who held the rank of commandant-general in the Western Command and who led the South Mayo flying column.

At the 1921 election to Dáil Éireann, Maguire was returned as a Teachta Dála (TD) for Mayo South–Roscommon South as a Sinn Féin candidate. He opposed the Anglo-Irish Treaty, and was re-elected at the 1922 general election. At the 1923 general election, Maguire succeeded in securing the second of five seats in the Mayo South constituency. Maguire was captured by the National Army while in bed and was told that he would be executed, but his life was spared. While in prison his brother, Sean Maguire, aged 17, was executed by the government.

In December 1938, Maguire was one of a group of seven people, who had been elected to the Second Dáil in 1921, who met with the IRA Army Council. At this meeting, the seven signed over what they contended was the authority of the Government of Dáil Éireann to the Army Council. Henceforth, the IRA Army Council perceived itself to be the legitimate government of the Irish Republic and, on this basis, the IRA justified their subsequent armed struggles.

As the last surviving member of the All-Ireland Government of Dáil Éireann, Maguire signed a statement which was issued posthumously in 1996. In it, he conferred legitimacy on the Army Council of the Continuity IRA, who it was revealed, provided a firing party at Maguire's funeral in 1993.


Witness Statement concerning Tom Maguire

''Tom Maguire, O/C, 2nd Western Division, attended a conference, called by General Headquarters Staff of the principal divisional officers in Ireland, held in Dublin. I remember speaking to him a few days before the meeting and he told me it was coming off and that be was travelling to Dublin the next day. He told me he would let me know what took place at it when he returned. He did let me know, because I was in the military barracks in Ballinrobe at the time and, to my amazement, he came out with a statement made to him by both Collins and O'Duffy, that they were only playing a game of bluff, that they did not intend to accept the Treaty at all, that their purpose in pretending to accept it was to get all the arms they could from the British, get the British troops out of the country, and when this had taken place, we would resume the fight. In other words, they would attack the British. I remember my feelings on hearing this statement which the unfortunate man, Maguire, swallowed "hook, line and sinker". I know the effect it had on me. I did not know whether to laugh or cry. I was inclined to laugh at the foolishness of the man to be taken in by this, and at the same time, I pitied and sympathised with him for being so simple and honest. I asked him why not resume the fight now. The Provisional Government were getting arms from the British. At this time they must have got at least 30,000 rifles. I said to Maguire: "Why not fight the British now and destroy them and take to the hills again? Where was the necessity to wait for the British troops to leave the country? Did he or anybody else like him believe for a moment that if the British did leave the country, that they could be kept out with .303 ammunition? In other words, rifle ammunition. Could he not see that if the British wanted to land troops again, they could land them anywhere on the Irish coast under cover of their fleet, and that we had not one piece of artillery that was capable of damaging the smallest warship of the British fleet?'' Maguire got rather 'huffed' and, as I did not want to press the argument any further, I left the room.'' - Witness statement concrningTom Maguire - BMH.WS0400.pdf


Kieran Glennon tells the story of the four Republicans executed in Donegal in 1923, by among others, his grandfather

Four Republicans, who subsequently became known as the “Drumboe Martyrs”, were executed by a Free State firing squad in Donegal in March 1923. None of the four was from that county – all had come there as part of a joint campaign against the north involving both the Provisional Government and their anti-Treaty opponents.

The Civil War in Donegal had an almost-uniquely northern dimension.

Firstly, two of the key protagonists’ involvement in the War of Independence had been in the north. Originally from Kerry, Charlie Daly had been appointed as a full-time IRA organiser in October 1920, responsible for Tyrone and the rural part of Co. Derry. He went on to command the 2nd Northern Division in this area until early March 1922, when he was removed due to his opposition to the Treaty. By mid-1922, he was Vice-Commandant of the Republican forces in Donegal.

On the other side, the Free State officer Tom Glennon was originally from Belfast. The month after Daly’s appointment as a full-time organiser in Derry-Tyrone, he had been appointed to an identical role in Co. Antrim, later becoming Officer Commanding of the Antrim Brigade until he was captured; his area of responsibility thus directly bordered Daly’s to the east. In November 1921, following his escape from internment in the Curragh, he was appointed Adjutant to the IRA’s 1st Northern Division in Donegal.

Secondly, and more significantly, the overwhelming majority of Republican forces in Donegal were from outside the county and were there directly because of the situation in the north. In April 1922, as part of their efforts to maintain unity in the IRA in the face of the split over the Treaty, Michael Collins and Liam Lynch had agreed on a joint military strategy to attack the Northern Ireland government.

The Provisional Government swapped British-supplied rifles with anti-Treaty units in Munster, the southern weapons then being smuggled into the north for use by local units of the IRA in staging an uprising in May. For their part, the Republican Army Executive in the Four Courts agreed to send men from anti-Treaty units of the IRA in Cork and Kerry up to Donegal, under the leadership of Cork man Seán Lehane, in order to launch attacks across the border. By early July, Free State Chief of Staff Eoin O’Duffy estimated that 700 Munster Republicans were in Donegal 1; in addition, several hundred anti-Treaty members of Daly’s old division had fled west from Tyrone and Derry to avoid internment.'


Republican Legitimacy

The Irish Citizen Army, Na Fianna, Cumann na mBan and Óglaigh na hÉireann, the Irish Volunteers, delegated their authority to the Ruling Executive of the IRA in 1917. That Ruling Executive was formally recognized as the Ruling Executive of the Army of the Irish Republic, when it was Democratically endorsed by the majority of the people in 1918.

The Ruling Executive of the Irish Republican Brotherhood should have formally disbanded following the amalgamation, because as Cathal Brugha prophetically predicted, one had the potential to undermine the other, which is precisely what happened in the wake of the Anglo-Irish Teaty of 1921, which led to the bitter Civil War between the National Army and the Irish Republican Army.

The National Army subsequently dissolved in 1924, and re-branded as Óglaigh na hEireann, which is the entity now known as the Irish Defense Forces, or simply, the Irish Army.

IRA Green-Book Rules were altered following the formal recognition of the Irish Free State as a Republic, and volunteers were subsequently given instructions to disarm and surrender if they were apprehended by Irish Army soldiers, so the IRA have formally recognized the Irish Army as the legitimate army of the 26 Counties since the 1940’s.

In 1924 the Irish Republican Brotherhood also formally disbanded, following the defeat of the Republican Forces in the Irish Civil War and the establishment of a partitioned Ireland, which over the course of the following century, became the root cause of the deaths of thousands of Irish Citizens.

In 1938, the continuation of the Ruling Executive of the last elected All-Ireland Dáil, delegated their authority to the IRA Army Council, with the Republic to be held-in-trust, pending the day the British Government announced it intentions to withdraw from Ireland, and elections held to elect a new All-Ireland Government, to a new National Parliament.

The IRA, the Continuity Irish Republican Army and Óglaigh na hEireann can all trace their roots back to the 1938 Republican Government, and so too can Laochra Uladh, Saor Uladh, the Independent IRA, Saor Éire, the Provisional IRA, the Official IRA, the Irish National Liberation Army, the Irish Peoples Liberation Organisation, Cumann na mBan and Na Fianna

Irish National Army soldiers killed during the Civil War, should be commemorated alongside civilians and Republicans in a National Memorial Wall, but Crown Forces personnel should not be included as they were in the Wall of Shame.
 
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McTell

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/////

In December 1938, Maguire was one of a group of seven people, who had been elected to the Second Dáil in 1921, who met with the IRA Army Council. At this meeting, the seven signed over what they contended was the authority of the Government of Dáil Éireann to the Army Council. Henceforth, the IRA Army Council perceived itself to be the legitimate government of the Irish Republic and, on this basis, the IRA justified their subsequent armed struggles. ....

The same 2nd Dail that approved the treaty in 1921.

There's no point in reading history looking only for the bits that help unelectable extremists. You have to take in the big picture at some point.
 

tipofdiceberg

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Hilarious & ironic from someone who believes the PIRA were the legitimate army of Ireland.
They seem to have moved "things" on a bit. Ireland witnessed that when Clinton, Kenny, Foster, etc paid tribute to Martin McGuinness, RIP.

It didn't take long for "compassionate concerns" to show the hidden hatred of the majority of posters on this thread. Perhaps the jihads learned from P.ie muppets.
 


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