The North goes Green

raetsel

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This dude must be spinning in his grave like an electric clothes dryer:

If you don’t act properly now, before we know where we are, we shall find ourselves in the minority instead of the majority

Lord Brookeborough, Prime Minister of Northern Ireland (1943-1963).
It's shocking but true that the penny still hasn't dropped yet among a seemingly significant number of unionists that they are now just another minority and can no longer control politics here.
For some reason unknown to me, Google on my phone often prioritises links to the letters page of the News Letter where I get an insight into the thoughts of ordinary unionists (usually from predominantly unionist areas), complaining incessantly about the capitulation to nationalists, concessions on the Irish language, DUP sell-outs etc. etc. ad nauseum.
It just seems so odd to me that these people still haven't realised that they can no longer dictate what is and isn't acceptable to them, or that in a shared society they must respect the fact that other people, culturally different from them, and who are also taxpayers, have the right to have their wishes respected.
It strikes me that these people would be a lot less disgruntled if they accepted that they were just another minority nowadays. Part of the problem I suspect is that they live in a bubble where contact with nationalists/nationalists is negligible, and thus inflate the importance of the influence of their world-view, through a lack of exposure to alternative political viewpoints.
 


Marcella

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You're the one doing the wishful thinking.

Amazing that you'd think Catholics are so brainwashed that they'd all vote the way you want them.
Do you think protestants are so brainwashed that they’ll all vote for the way you want them ?
 

McSlaggart

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You're the one doing the wishful thinking.

Amazing that you'd think Catholics are so brainwashed that they'd all vote the way you want them.

Catholics of all sorts tend to see themselves as part of one church. This has an impact on how they tend to view the concept of the EU in a positive manner.
 

blinding

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Catholics of all sorts tend to see themselves as part of one church. This has an impact on how they tend to view the concept of the EU in a positive manner.
Catholics have been wrong on plenty of stuff . Unthinking obedience to the Princes of Rome for one .

Repeating the same to the Princes and Princesses of Brussels would be just continuing the Rome mistake.
 

Newrybhoy

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Do you think protestants are so brainwashed that they’ll all vote for the way you want them ?
I'd say 5% of Protestants might support a UI.

Between 30and 40% of Catholics will oppose it.

Brainwashing had nothing to do with reality. And the reality is the status quo will rule for every public servant and their families. Everyone with severe medical conditions that need long term care and indeed those receiving free nursing home care and their families.
 

McSlaggart

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I'd say 5% of Protestants might support a UI.

Between 30and 40% of Catholics will oppose it.

Brainwashing had nothing to do with reality. And the reality is the status quo will rule for every public servant and their families. Everyone with severe medical conditions that need long term care and indeed those receiving free nursing home care and their families.

The NHS is not working. I used to think it was a wonderful organisation today people leave northern Ireland in order to get their treatment within a suitable time period.

Have you even compared the wages in northern Ireland to the rest of the island in the area of public service jobs?
 

Newrybhoy

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The NHS is not working. I used to think it was a wonderful organisation today people leave northern Ireland in order to get their treatment within a suitable time period.

Have you even compared the wages in northern Ireland to the rest of the island in the area of public service jobs?
Fine if you've got money. Not if you haven't.

Have you seen the cost of living in the south compared to NI?
 

McSlaggart

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Fine if you've got money. Not if you haven't.

Have you seen the cost of living in the south compared to NI?

The benefits in the south are greater than they are in the "north". Wages for the same job are often much much higher than in the north. Brexit has increased the uncertainty around the uk economy.

The question that unionism always asks is how can the south pay for the north? The question is thought about would give you the reason why nationalists want out of the uk.
 

raetsel

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Fine if you've got money. Not if you haven't.

Have you seen the cost of living in the south compared to NI?
People on low incomes in the Republic qualify for free healthcare, while Jobseeker's Benefit is considerably higher in the UK, which has the lowest rate in western Europe. In addition Children's Allowance benefits in Ireland are second only to Belgium in the EU.
 

Observer B

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Between 30and 40% of Catholics will oppose it.
That might have been true 3 years ago, more like 1 or 2% now due to Brexit.

As regards protestants and a UI, have a look at the video below, in particular listen to what Robbie McVeigh has to say from 9:10 onwards:

 

Marcella

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I'd say 5% of Protestants might support a UI.

Between 30and 40% of Catholics will oppose it.

Brainwashing had nothing to do with reality. And the reality is the status quo will rule for every public servant and their families. Everyone with severe medical conditions that need long term care and indeed those receiving free nursing home care and their families.
You keep plucking figures out of your ass their lad. Good man.
 

Barroso

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That might have been true 3 years ago, more like 1 or 2% now due to Brexit.

As regards protestants and a UI, have a look at the video below, in particular listen to what Robbie McVeigh has to say from 9:10 onwards:

A good find; but he's a minority within his community.
At the very end, he says that everyone he talks to accepts that a united Ireland is on the way.
But he lives in Tyrone, where there have always been catholic and protestant areas.
Would people feel the same in E Derry, Antrim and N Down and N Armagh?
 

raetsel

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A good find; but he's a minority within his community.
At the very end, he says that everyone he talks to accepts that a united Ireland is on the way.
But he lives in Tyrone, where there have always been catholic and protestant areas.
Would people feel the same in E Derry, Antrim and N Down and N Armagh?
Realistically those from Protestant backgrounds wouldn't. But would they accept it if it came about? Most would, certainly most of those who own businesses or property or otherwise have a stake in society here. Those with no stake who couldn't accept it would obviously have to decide whether to move to Scotland, (which wouldn't want them), or to stay and fight.
But, in the ultimate irony, they'd have nothing left to fight for.
 

McSlaggart

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Would people feel the same in E Derry, Antrim and N Down and N Armagh?


it strikes me that we have passed a tipping point in which a major protest by unionism on something this dislike will be self defeating. More unionist children will go to the mainland and never return.
 

Barroso

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it strikes me that we have passed a tipping point in which a major protest by unionism on something this dislike will be self defeating. More unionist children will go to the mainland and never return.
My experience tells me that the middle classes are ready to move on.
There are plenty that aren't, though. Just take a look at SEFF, for instance. Enormous bitterness that they continue to stoke, as though they were the severely discriminated against minority.
 

Observer B

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A good find; but he's a minority within his community.
At the very end, he says that everyone he talks to accepts that a united Ireland is on the way.
Point is, attitudes are definitely changing, although some will hold out to the last.

Would people feel the same in E Derry, Antrim and N Down and N Armagh?
Seeing as you mentioned N Down, the fact that they had a moderate independent unionist MP who retired and the vote almost completely swung to Alliance rather than the DUP shows that a large part of the population there are more pro EU than pro onion. Money talks an BS walks in N Down. There is another clip on you tube where a number of unionists in N Down declare that a UI in the EU would be preferable to being in a UK outside the EU. I'll dig it out when I get a chance.
 
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Observer B

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it strikes me that we have passed a tipping point in which a major protest by unionism on something this dislike will be self defeating. More unionist children will go to the mainland and never return.
25 years ago someone pointed this out to be. Relatively well off unionists/OO members wouldn't send their kids to UU or Queens in case they were "influenced by Fenians" as from the early 90s or there abouts they all had a majority catholic student pop.. The majority of them weren't coming back and some that did had discovered their Irishness. Same parents never considered that their kids might get a major eye opener on the mainland, as Robbie Mc Veigh mentioned in the clip above.
 

McSlaggart

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25 years ago someone pointed this out to be. Relatively well off unionists/OO members wouldn't send their kids to UU or Queens in case they were "influenced by Fenians" as from the early 90s or there abouts they all had a majority catholic student pop.. The majority of them weren't coming back and some that did had discovered their Irishness. Same parents never considered that their kids might get a major eye opener on the mainland, as Robbie Mc Veigh mentioned in the clip above.
On a personal level I would say the percentage of unionists who attend university in Britain is much greater than nationalist? I would have no hard evidence to support this assertion.

 

Paddyc

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25 years ago someone pointed this out to be. Relatively well off unionists/OO members wouldn't send their kids to UU or Queens in case they were "influenced by Fenians" as from the early 90s or there abouts they all had a majority catholic student pop.. The majority of them weren't coming back and some that did had discovered their Irishness. Same parents never considered that their kids might get a major eye opener on the mainland, as Robbie Mc Veigh mentioned in the clip above.
When you say "influenced by Fenians" do you really mean, start going out with Fenians?
 


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