The Painful Irish Happenings

Andrew49

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Brazilian Cardinal Claudio Hummes, Prefect of the Vatican’s Congregation for the Clergy, said the abuse by priests in Ireland constituted “painful” and “criminal” behaviour ... but are not representative of the behaviour of the vast majority of priests in the Catholic Church. Irish clerical abuse not typical of church
“The painful Irish happenings – which by the way have seen some bishops assume their responsibilities and resign – simply do not relate to the entire episcopal ministry."
Interesting quote from Hummes: Some bishops have assumed their responsibilities and resigned! Is this a heavy hint to Bishop Drennan to also assume his responsibility and resign?
 


Sync

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No it's not, and only someone with an existing hardline viewpoint could possibly draw that conclusion from the sentence.
 

Mitsui2

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Andrew thinks that abusing children is wrong, and that the assembly-line abuse of children by a supposedly ethical organisation that subsequently moves heaven and earth to cover up the abuse is even more wrong.

Whew! That's some hardline viewpoint all right! Really out there on the edge! Wonder if he'll ever meet anyone who agrees with him?
 

Andrew49

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No it's not, and only someone with an existing hardline viewpoint could possibly draw that conclusion from the sentence.
Another quote from Hummes:
"The devil attacks the shepherd. In fact, if by killing the sheep the flock is reduced, by instead eliminating the shepherd he will destroy the entire flock."
The 'painful happenings' that have occurred in Ireland were not caused by the devil - but by bishops complicit in the cover-up of attacks on children by priests.
 
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The Vatican ENABLED & ASSISTED now the Vatican attempts to paint the 'problem' as a uniquely 'Irish' problem

Fuck you Rome, Fuck you

This is WAR
 

seanad voter

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Now, there's a novel idea - declare war on the Vatican City State.

How would they resist a takeover ?
 
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Some bishops have assumed their responsibilities and resigned! Is this a heavy hint to Bishop Drennan to also assume his responsibility and resign?
Actually, resigning is what is called taking a powder - if they truly believed in their God, they would go directly to the nearest police station and make a full statement to the effect that they were indirectly responsible for the torture and abuse of children by their facilitation and obsfucation of the activities of the people they are allegedly 'responsible for' and as such, it would be in the interests of their immortal soul that they take proper responsibility for their sins through proper penance.

However, with the proper application of logic to the activities of the hierarchy of the Catholic Church, the following can be ascertained:

1. They do not actually believe their own preaching. (Also known in the more colloquial phrase ''dont get high on your own supply''.)

2. They only concern themselves with the 'health & well being' of the Church as an institution.

3. The has been a complete disconnect between the Religion of a wandering, ex tradesman who preached such concepts as love, tolerance, acceptance, forgiveness and progression, you would be hard pressed to find any of the above in the hierarchy of the Church.

(Please note I am not attacking ordinary Catholics here anymore than a criticism of Barack Obama or Gordon Brown would be an attack on the US or UK public.)
 

The Caped Cod

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How about the resposnsibility to go to court for wilful obstruction of justice as well as complcity to committ and cover up child abuse? Are any bishops going to assume that responsibility I wonder. I doubt it, seeing as there are probably a few still serving senior Gardai and Judges who are probably just as guilty and would prefer not to push the point.
 
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How about the resposnsibility to go to court for wilful obstruction of justice as well as complcity to committ and cover up child abuse? Are any bishops going to assume that responsibility I wonder. I doubt it, seeing as there are probably a few still serving senior Gardai and Judges who are probably just as guilty and would prefer not to push the point.
Whats funny (as in strange, not amusing) is the amount of the people who will say that the above accusation is ridiculous and totally wild and unfounded.

These are the same people who said the same thing about the Priesthood not very long ago.
 

Andrew49

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St Mary's College in Galway on Tuesday 19th January

THE defiant Bishop of Galway, Martin Drennan, has summoned an emergency meeting of his clergy next week to undertake a comprehensive review of child protection procedures in the diocese. The gathering of priests will take place at St Mary's College in Galway on Tuesday - 19th January.

The initiative aims to bolster Bishop Drennan's shaky position after he resisted repeated calls before Christmas for his resignation because he was named in the Murphy report into cover-ups of paedophile priests in the Archdiocese of Dublin. Bishop Drennan is the only one of five former auxiliary bishops in the archdiocese who has not resigned after being called to account for their handling of abuse complaints by Archbishop Diarmuid Martin.

Source

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9-_c25CKwA"]YouTube - The Case Against Bishop Martin Drennan[/ame]

Meanwhile, the monthly religious magazine 'Reality' has hit out at Catholic church leaders who, it says, "appear to be more interested in silk robes and the Latin Mass and east-facing altars than in examining why our church has not been a safe environment for its most vulnerable members".

In another development, 'The Irish Catholic' newspaper will today support the renaming of the Archbishop Ryan Park in Merrion Square, Dublin, in honour of victims of clerical child abuse.
 
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sauntersplash

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Are some of you honestly labouring under the presumption that the church can be reformed in this regard?

How can you ever believe that a priest is a direct conduit to God again? How can you believe in transubstantiation, confession, papal infallibility? How can you believe in any of the cornerstones of the catholic church which insist on human intermediaries in the form of the clergy for communion with God?

In asking for reform in the church's treatment of such things you are admitting its status as nothing but a political institution. You are draining all spiritual certainty from its corpse. You are reducing it's clergy to nothing but lecturers on scripture. Perhaps you are happy with this, but realise, you are no longer a catholic. Your centralised belief system is already dead.

The church cannot exist after these revelations, every vestige of decency, authenticity and authority has been permanently removed.
 

Kev408

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With the 'natural wastage' of older die-hard Catholics in Ireland, the church will die here. The Vatican Plc doesn't give a ******************** about us because they still have Africa and South America to corrupt and milk dry financially. This has been noted by myself and other posters long before Hummes (not surprisingly a South American cardinal) spouted his **************************************** regarding Irish clergy.
 

Sync

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Another quote from Hummes:

The 'painful happenings' that have occurred in Ireland were not caused by the devil - but by bishops complicit in the cover-up of attacks on children by priests.
I'm not disputing that, and I'd agree fully with CapedCod's post that those guilty should be prosecuted. I just don't think you can look at the quote you posted, or this new one, and think that's a specific hint to resign to one specific person. By doing that you're doing what scam artists have been doing with religious quotes for centuries, reading far more into something than is actually there.

Edit: This thread has someone been interpreted by the ad system as being linked to animated girls kissing.
 

Andrew49

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I'm not disputing that, and I'd agree fully with CapedCod's post that those guilty should be prosecuted. I just don't think you can look at the quote you posted, or this new one, and think that's a specific hint to resign to one specific person. By doing that you're doing what scam artists have been doing with religious quotes for centuries, reading far more into something than is actually there.

Edit: This thread has someone been interpreted by the ad system as being linked to animated girls kissing.
But the prelate didn't say ' Bishops have assumed their responsibilities and resigned', which is a straightforward and factual sentence - he did say: " Some bishops have assumed their responsibilities and resigned". I could be reading more into the one word difference in the sentences of course!

The ad system can throw up some funny stuff - on my PC any thread referencing Vincent Browne throws up the 'Journalism Is Dead' ad - which always brings a guffaw from me. Maybe a thread on Google AdSense results ......?
 

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President tells envoys child abuse affects us all

“THE PROBLEMS addressed by the Ryan and Murphy reports, as well as the vulnerability of children to abuse in the home, are peculiar neither to Ireland nor to the Catholic Church,” President McAleese said yesterday.

In a seeming retort to comments by Cardinal Claudio Hummes, Prefect of the Congregation for the Clergy, in the Vatican earlier this week, President McAleese said:
“These are global problems and to assume otherwise is to offer abusers the same dishonourable secret veil which gave them protection and immunity for far too long. I hope the world’s children will benefit from the greater scepticism and vigilance that our experience rightly demands in order to better protect our children.”
She was speaking at Áras an Uachtaráin to members of the diplomatic corps at the annual presentation of new year greetings.
“Thanks to victims and their advocates, we have been able to offer redress and reassurance that child protection is a high priority, infinitely more important than the status of any institution or individual, and that child abuse is, as it has always been, a heinous crime – but today it is a crime that will be pursued, not suppressed. These matters rightly absorb us in Ireland . . ...... many of you will have seen the strong, caring and generous character of the Irish people showcased in their response to this winter’s recordbreaking floods and freezes. You will also have seen the solid determination of our people to right past wrongs in the publication of the Ryan and Murphy reports into child abuse.”
Irish Times

Well said.
 

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Gardai have stepped up an investigation into whether members of the force or the clergy broke the law in protecting child sexual abusers. A dedicated team of detectives working under an assistant Garda commissioner, John O'Mahony, is preparing to interview up to half-a-dozen members of the force whose actions were criticised in Judge Yvonne Murphy's report on child abuse in the Dublin archdiocese. It is understood that some individuals have already been interviewed but it is not clear whether these are priests or former members of the force.

The report is not only focusing on gardai but also on the actions of priests and clergy to see if there is evidence that they failed to act in relation to a criminal act. Those who are expected to be interviewed include the retired Cardinal Desmond Connell and the retired chief superintendents Maurice O'Connor and Joe McGovern. There have already been calls from victims groups that Cardinal Connell be prosecuted

Source

Justice minister Dermot Ahern said that under current legislation, anyone who knowingly failed to protect children from paedophiles is guilty of an offence.
 

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An 82-year-old Catholic priest who was shielded by the church authorities during a garda investigation has been jailed for a year for indecently assaulting a young boy in the 1970s and 80s. Fr Patrick Hughes of Park Drive Court, Castleknock, in Dublin, pleaded guilty to the offences and apologised to his victim.

The Dublin Circuit Criminal Court heard that the Catholic Church authorities gave gardaí 'the run around' when they were investigating the whereabouts of Fr Hughes. Following widespread publicity about the priest, he left the country in 2002 and was located by gardaí in the UK in 2007. Gardaí agreed that the church authorities had given them 'something of the run around' in efforts to locate him. Counsel for Fr Hughes, Remy Farrell, said the church had been 'reluctant to deal with the matter in a candid fashion' but when Fr Hughes was approached by gardaí in the UK he took a different view.

He indecently assaulted an altar boy in the 1970s and 80s at a parochial house and during trips to the beach. He also intercepted him on journeys to school and abused him in his car. The victim told gardaí he had changed his bus stop and his journey times but the priest still managed to find him. The court heard that the priest would ring the boy's mother and ask if he could come to his house to do odd jobs. He would also take him on trips to the beach.

In statements to gardaí Fr Hughes said he was not a paedophile. He 'was only attracted to altar boys,' he said. He said he could not explain it and did not think any psychiatrist could explain it either.

He had received counselling in the US and said he regretted what had happened and was sorry. The court heard that the victim chose not to attend court and declined to make a victim impact statement. He made the complaint in 2003 after his mother became concerned after reading newspaper articles about the priest. Judge Katherine Delahunt congratulated gardaí involved in the case and said they went almost beyond the call of duty to investigate the case. She said it took a long time to come before the court because it was delayed by 'persons who were shielding you'. She said it was a gross abuse of trust and jailed him for one year. The maximum sentence for the offences involved was two years, she said. In a statement read to court the 82-year-old said he was 'most profoundly sorry' for his inappropriate behaviour. He said he wants to humbly ask for forgiveness.

Now in his 83rd year, he said he had not offended in 25 years and had, through the benevolence of his superiors, been rehabilitated through a programme in Maryland in the US. He said he was grateful to his superiors for this and to his family and a few friends. He said he had 'wandered into the desert', which was a lonely place.

Kildare KFM Radio
 

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Cover-ups made child abuse worse: Diarmuid Martin

Catholic leaders must confront their cover-ups of child abuse honestly and completely if they want to fulfill their mission as Christians, Dublin Archbishop Diarmuid Martin said today as the pope arrived in neighboring Britain.
"Abuse was reinforced by covering it up ... I never for a moment imagined, in my work as a pastor, that I would have had to address the sexual abuse of children on such a wide scale .... the church still had a painful road to travel to complete its penance. There is no way forward for the church in carrying out its mission without adequately addressing its past. Assessing the truth of the past objectively and accurately is a precondition for assessing what is happening today. ... The church has to address its past honestly and completely."
Pope Benedict XVI condemned the abusers but sidestepped any Vatican role in promoting a culture of concealment. Link
 

femmefatale

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Cover-ups made child abuse worse: Diarmuid Martin

Catholic leaders must confront their cover-ups of child abuse honestly and completely if they want to fulfill their mission as Christians, Dublin Archbishop Diarmuid Martin said today as the pope arrived in neighboring Britain.Pope Benedict XVI condemned the abusers but sidestepped any Vatican role in promoting a culture of concealment. Link
Despite the Pope's visit, not too many Catholics feel that this is a time for celebration. People are still shocked and disgusted by the revelations of abuse and the inability of the Church to respond properly and compassionately and remorsefully at an institutional level. I imagine it must be painful for victims to see the Pope visit when they are still trying to get the Church to face up to it's responsibility for the injustices and depravities perpetrated against the innocent and vulnerable. I hope the Pope says something meaningful about these issues while he is on his visit. It is not right to be celebratory and positive when such suffering has been incurred and people are still hurting. The priority for the Church must be dealing with this matter in the serious and uncompromising way it deserves.
 


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