The Possible Demise Of The Army Council

between the bridges

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 21, 2011
Messages
45,157
I find it somewhat remarkable that a sea change in one of the 'parties' on this two country Island can take place without any debate on the premier political web site.

Now with a nod to the save p.ie campaign and in an endeavor to foster open, honest and meaningful debate I must declare that as a self confessed proddyorangiebigotbandsaman I am not a fan of Sf/Ra.

However this distance does enable me to have a level of objectivity and clarity that members of the cult can only dream of achieving even if it was issued in a pop up memo from Connolly mansion.

To accept my contribution to the save the p.ie debate one has to first acknowledge that from the foundation of PIRA the ultimate control has belonged to the Army Council.

In reality there is no actual debate on this (cue incoming) as anyone with actual knowledge of the Republican Movement can confirm. Anyone who hasn't an actual grasp on this could start by reading the Green book.

CAIN: Events: Text of Irish Republican Army (IRA) 'Green Book' (Book I and II)

So let us first examine the fabled Army Council, a body which British Intelligence laconically labelled the 'magnificent seven', in recognition of the self anointed grand titles.

Commander in Chief, Adjutant General (deputy CiC), Quartermaster General, Paymaster General, Northern Commander in Chief, Southern Commander in Chief and Chief Intelligence Officer. Each senior council member had a deputy who could attend (usually in their absence) and a number of others in the second tier could advise on specialist areas i.e Fundraising, Procurement, PR/media, Welfare etc. So in total the full membership was in the 15/16 range but generally attendance was 5/6 at most.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRA_Army_Council

Obviously change is gradual rather than over night and only a fool would assert that the Army Council is into micro management of SF/Ra, but at the same time up until now the final say on the direction of the movement has rested with them.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/oct/20/ira-still-exists-but-in-much-reduced-form-says-official-report

So the current proposed coronation of a Southern and Northerly Queen to the top posts in SF will allegedly mean for the first time no direct SF representation on the Army Council.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/mary-lou-mcdonald-confirmed-as-new-leader-of-sinn-féin-1.3362813

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/michelle-oneill-to-seek-position-of-sinn-fein-deputy-leader-36513685.html

The more cynical among us may be tempted to attribute this to the fact that the AC has been a men only club and wants to remain that way.

But being of more generous spirit I am happy to give credit were it is due and welcome Sf distancing itself from the Ra.
The transition from a wing to a party may have finally begun, so its a well done from moi and I look forward to the next generation of SF voters not having to hang their heads in shame...
 
Last edited:


Supra

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 31, 2015
Messages
2,168
I find it somewhat remarkable that a sea change in one of the 'parties' on this two country Island can take place without any debate on the premier political web site.

Now with a nod to the save p.ie campaign and in an endeavor to foster open, honest and meaningful debate I must declare that as a self confessed proddyorangiebigotbandsaman I am not a fan of Sf/Ra.

However this distance does enable me to have a level of objectivity and clarity that members of the cult can only dream of achieving even if it was issued in a pop up memo from Connolly mansion.

To accept my contribution to the save the p.ie debate one has to first acknowledge that from the foundation of PIRA the ultimate control has belonged to the Army Council.

In reality there is no actual debate on this (cue incoming) as anyone with actual knowledge of the Republican Movement can confirm. Anyone who hasn't an actual grasp on this could start by reading the Green book.

CAIN: Events: Text of Irish Republican Army (IRA) 'Green Book' (Book I and II)

So let us first examine the fabled Army Council, a body which British Intelligence laconically labelled the 'magnificent seven', in recognition of the self anointed grand titles.

Commander in Chief, Adjutant General (deputy CiC), Quartermaster General, Paymaster General, Northern Commander in Chief, Southern Commander in Chief and Chief Intelligence Officer. Each senior council member had a deputy who could attend (usually in their absence) and a number of others in the second tier could advise on specialist areas i.e Fundraising, Procurement, PR/media, Welfare etc. So in total the full membership was in the 15/16 range but generally attendance was 5/6 at most.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRA_Army_Council

Obviously change is gradual rather than over night and only a fool would assert that the Army Council is into micro management of SF/Ra, but at the same time up until now the final say on the direction of the movement has rested with them.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/oct/20/ira-still-exists-but-in-much-reduced-form-says-official-report

So the current proposed coronation of a Southern and Northerly Queen to the top posts in SF will allegedly mean for the first time no direct SF representation on the Army Council.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/mary-lou-mcdonald-confirmed-as-new-leader-of-sinn-féin-1.3362813

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/michelle-oneill-to-seek-position-of-sinn-fein-deputy-leader-36513685.html

The more cynical among us may be tempted to attribute this to the fact that the AB has been a men only club and wants to remain that way.

But being of more generous spirit I am happy to give credit were it is due and welcome Sf distancing itself from the Ra.
The transition from a wing to a party may have finally begun, so its a well done from moi and I look forward to the next generation of SF voters not having to hang their heads in shame...
Sooner or later we all arrive at the same place.
 

wombat

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
33,519
There isn't much point in trying to start such a debate, true believers will not listen to criticism so why bother?
 

hollandia

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 11, 2012
Messages
30,149
I find it somewhat remarkable that a sea change in one of the 'parties' on this two country Island can take place without any debate on the premier political web site.

Now with a nod to the save p.ie campaign and in an endeavor to foster open, honest and meaningful debate I must declare that as a self confessed proddyorangiebigotbandsaman I am not a fan of Sf/Ra.

However this distance does enable me to have a level of objectivity and clarity that members of the cult can only dream of achieving even if it was issued in a pop up memo from Connolly mansion.

To accept my contribution to the save the p.ie debate one has to first acknowledge that from the foundation of PIRA the ultimate control has belonged to the Army Council.

In reality there is no actual debate on this (cue incoming) as anyone with actual knowledge of the Republican Movement can confirm. Anyone who hasn't an actual grasp on this could start by reading the Green book.

CAIN: Events: Text of Irish Republican Army (IRA) 'Green Book' (Book I and II)

So let us first examine the fabled Army Council, a body which British Intelligence laconically labelled the 'magnificent seven', in recognition of the self anointed grand titles.

Commander in Chief, Adjutant General (deputy CiC), Quartermaster General, Paymaster General, Northern Commander in Chief, Southern Commander in Chief and Chief Intelligence Officer. Each senior council member had a deputy who could attend (usually in their absence) and a number of others in the second tier could advise on specialist areas i.e Fundraising, Procurement, PR/media, Welfare etc. So in total the full membership was in the 15/16 range but generally attendance was 5/6 at most.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRA_Army_Council

Obviously change is gradual rather than over night and only a fool would assert that the Army Council is into micro management of SF/Ra, but at the same time up until now the final say on the direction of the movement has rested with them.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/oct/20/ira-still-exists-but-in-much-reduced-form-says-official-report

So the current proposed coronation of a Southern and Northerly Queen to the top posts in SF will allegedly mean for the first time no direct SF representation on the Army Council.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/mary-lou-mcdonald-confirmed-as-new-leader-of-sinn-féin-1.3362813

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/michelle-oneill-to-seek-position-of-sinn-fein-deputy-leader-36513685.html

The more cynical among us may be tempted to attribute this to the fact that the AB has been a men only club and wants to remain that way.

But being of more generous spirit I am happy to give credit were it is due and welcome Sf distancing itself from the Ra.
The transition from a wing to a party may have finally begun, so its a well done from moi and I look forward to the next generation of SF voters not having to hang their heads in shame...
What is this. This is coherent and in intelligible English. What have you done with the real bridges?
 

between the bridges

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 21, 2011
Messages
45,157
What is this. This is coherent and in intelligible English. What have you done with the real bridges?
Your contribution to the save the debate on p.ie has been noted and found wanting... please address the OP and play the ball not the man...
 

hollandia

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 11, 2012
Messages
30,149
Your contribution to the save the debate on p.ie has been noted and found wanting... please address the OP and play the ball not the man...
This isn't slugger.

ETA its also substantially longer than your response to my OP. And since you think P.IE can't be saved, why bother?

Anyhoo... [BTBmode] moi's sources tell moi, that the armani council haven't existed in quite sometime [/BTBmode]
 

redneck

Well-known member
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
7,404
The demise of the IRA army council is welcome and overdue. Hopefully it will happen, but let us see the UDA also disband.
 

between the bridges

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 21, 2011
Messages
45,157
I can only ask the more serious posters to ignore the obvious trolling...
 

Niall996

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 5, 2011
Messages
11,823
I find it somewhat remarkable that a sea change in one of the 'parties' on this two country Island can take place without any debate on the premier political web site.

Now with a nod to the save p.ie campaign and in an endeavor to foster open, honest and meaningful debate I must declare that as a self confessed proddyorangiebigotbandsaman I am not a fan of Sf/Ra.

However this distance does enable me to have a level of objectivity and clarity that members of the cult can only dream of achieving even if it was issued in a pop up memo from Connolly mansion.

To accept my contribution to the save the p.ie debate one has to first acknowledge that from the foundation of PIRA the ultimate control has belonged to the Army Council.

In reality there is no actual debate on this (cue incoming) as anyone with actual knowledge of the Republican Movement can confirm. Anyone who hasn't an actual grasp on this could start by reading the Green book.

CAIN: Events: Text of Irish Republican Army (IRA) 'Green Book' (Book I and II)

So let us first examine the fabled Army Council, a body which British Intelligence laconically labelled the 'magnificent seven', in recognition of the self anointed grand titles.

Commander in Chief, Adjutant General (deputy CiC), Quartermaster General, Paymaster General, Northern Commander in Chief, Southern Commander in Chief and Chief Intelligence Officer. Each senior council member had a deputy who could attend (usually in their absence) and a number of others in the second tier could advise on specialist areas i.e Fundraising, Procurement, PR/media, Welfare etc. So in total the full membership was in the 15/16 range but generally attendance was 5/6 at most.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRA_Army_Council

Obviously change is gradual rather than over night and only a fool would assert that the Army Council is into micro management of SF/Ra, but at the same time up until now the final say on the direction of the movement has rested with them.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/oct/20/ira-still-exists-but-in-much-reduced-form-says-official-report

So the current proposed coronation of a Southern and Northerly Queen to the top posts in SF will allegedly mean for the first time no direct SF representation on the Army Council.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/mary-lou-mcdonald-confirmed-as-new-leader-of-sinn-féin-1.3362813

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/michelle-oneill-to-seek-position-of-sinn-fein-deputy-leader-36513685.html

The more cynical among us may be tempted to attribute this to the fact that the AC has been a men only club and wants to remain that way.

But being of more generous spirit I am happy to give credit were it is due and welcome Sf distancing itself from the Ra.
The transition from a wing to a party may have finally begun, so its a well done from moi and I look forward to the next generation of SF voters not having to hang their heads in shame...
Yeah, interesting if SF are doing accelerating the usual evolution thing. But while you're on the topic, I agree with you, it would be great to have a proper IRA visitor centre or museum. Ideally with recreations of some of of the more famous and indeed epic military successes. I was in the Royal Imperial War Museum once and I thought they did a good job of recreating a scene form one of their own battles, The Somme or something like that. Plus it would without doubt, if done well, and done tasteffully of course, not triumphantly but with modesty and humility, be a hugely popular visitor centre and I imagine a solid revenue generator. For the future. Just in case like.
 

former wesleyan

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
25,615
Yeah, interesting if SF are doing accelerating the usual evolution thing. But while you're on the topic, I agree with you, it would be great to have a proper IRA visitor centre or museum. Ideally with recreations of some of of the more famous and indeed epic military successes. I was in the Royal Imperial War Museum once and I thought they did a good job of recreating a scene form one of their own battles, The Somme or something like that. Plus it would without doubt, if done well, and done tasteffully of course, not triumphantly but with modesty and humility, be a hugely popular visitor centre and I imagine a solid revenue generator. For the future. Just in case like.
Brilliant idea. Park up a minibus or two, recreate an evangelical hut and leave a few coffee grinders lying around.
 

between the bridges

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 21, 2011
Messages
45,157
Yeah, interesting if SF are doing accelerating the usual evolution thing. But while you're on the topic, I agree with you, it would be great to have a proper IRA visitor centre or museum. Ideally with recreations of some of of the more famous and indeed epic military successes. I was in the Royal Imperial War Museum once and I thought they did a good job of recreating a scene form one of their own battles, The Somme or something like that. Plus it would without doubt, if done well, and done tasteffully of course, not triumphantly but with modesty and humility, be a hugely popular visitor centre and I imagine a solid revenue generator. For the future. Just in case like.
Excellent idea presumably the white fleg will fly outside to keep a sense of historical perspective...
 

Gwannow

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 30, 2016
Messages
1,056
I never supported the IRA or Sinn Fein; however, I'm very cognisant that the IRA of the day was created by the actions of the British Army's and Securicrat's reactions to the peaceful civil rights campaigns of the late 1960's.
I honestly believe that the war was the wrong course of action and created greater divisions between the two communities and made unification even more difficult.
The treatment of innocent Irish people in the North by British forces was appalling, and the Republic's lack of protection for people who they considered to be citizens of Ireland was shameful. Who else was going to help them? Very few in the Unionist community stretched out the hand of friendship to the people who suffering desperate discrimination.
I'm glad that those terrible times are behind us and am hopeful nothing of its kind will ever visit this island again, and that people will learn to live in peace and respect for each other.
Civil wars are always destructive to any country they take place in. The civil war in the USA, although fought for good ideals, has created divisions in that country which still exist to this day. I believe again that had it not happened, and negotiations were strongly administered then the residual hatred against the Union would not be so entrenched. Most families lost loved ones.
I also think slavery would have ended eventually by common agreement and the Jim Crow laws would not have been enacted. Those laws brought bad conditions for Black Americans.
If there is still an IRA army counsel I wish that they would stand down. It's not needed now.
 

Niall996

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 5, 2011
Messages
11,823
Excellent idea presumably the white fleg will fly outside to keep a sense of historical perspective...
Absolutely. Totally agree. Which British PM would you suggest they have holding it? It would seem harsh to put the entire capitulation on the shoulders of just one PM. Maybe a sort of recreation of the Iwo Jima flag raising moment with four or five PM's raising the white flag?
 


New Threads

Most Replies

Top