The Possible Demise Of The Army Council



McSlaggart

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FF and FG's backstory there is dead. There are no civil war veterans alive now.
FYI :

"The Defence Forces, including the Army, trace their origins to the Irish Republican Army (IRA), the guerrilla organisation that fought British government forces during the Irish War of Independence."

Wikipedia
 

Gin Soaked

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FYI :

"The Defence Forces, including the Army, trace their origins to the Irish Republican Army (IRA), the guerrilla organisation that fought British government forces during the Irish War of Independence."

Wikipedia
100 years ago. And I know of UK officers who contributed to the skillset for the Defence forces 70 years ago too...

You are grasping at straws..
 

Mickeymac

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No. The state has an army. Not the ruling party.

They can lose power and lose their very limited control on the army.

SF are a touch different....

The illegal Orange State (1921-1972) consisted of several armed terrorist wings, there was RUC/Bspecials/UVF/UDA/RHC/UDR etc etc

Any particular reason why you omitted this disgusting set-up which was condemned by many civilised Nations WW?
 

Gin Soaked

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The illegal Orange State (1921-1972) consisted of several armed terrorist wings, there was RUC/Bspecials/UVF/UDA/RHC/UDR etc etc

Any particular reason why you omitted this disgusting set-up which was condemned by many civilised Nations WW?
Because we are discussing SF in the context of Autonomous government in the south, not the Loyalist sectarian thugfest inflicted up north.
 

McSlaggart

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100 years ago. And I know of UK officers who contributed to the skillset for the Defence forces 70 years ago too...

You are grasping at straws..

I know at the start of the troubles in Tyrone some of the old IRA ended up training some new members. Funny to think their skills was not used in the regular army?
 

Mickeymac

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Because we are discussing SF in the context of Autonomous government in the south, not the Loyalist sectarian thugfest inflicted up north.

You do know of course the North is on the island of Ireland and consists of 32 counties?
 

riker1969

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I find it somewhat remarkable that a sea change in one of the 'parties' on this two country Island can take place without any debate on the premier political web site.

Now with a nod to the save p.ie campaign and in an endeavor to foster open, honest and meaningful debate I must declare that as a self confessed proddyorangiebigotbandsaman I am not a fan of Sf/Ra.

However this distance does enable me to have a level of objectivity and clarity that members of the cult can only dream of achieving even if it was issued in a pop up memo from Connolly mansion.

To accept my contribution to the save the p.ie debate one has to first acknowledge that from the foundation of PIRA the ultimate control has belonged to the Army Council.

In reality there is no actual debate on this (cue incoming) as anyone with actual knowledge of the Republican Movement can confirm. Anyone who hasn't an actual grasp on this could start by reading the Green book.

CAIN: Events: Text of Irish Republican Army (IRA) 'Green Book' (Book I and II)

So let us first examine the fabled Army Council, a body which British Intelligence laconically labelled the 'magnificent seven', in recognition of the self anointed grand titles.

Commander in Chief, Adjutant General (deputy CiC), Quartermaster General, Paymaster General, Northern Commander in Chief, Southern Commander in Chief and Chief Intelligence Officer. Each senior council member had a deputy who could attend (usually in their absence) and a number of others in the second tier could advise on specialist areas i.e Fundraising, Procurement, PR/media, Welfare etc. So in total the full membership was in the 15/16 range but generally attendance was 5/6 at most.

IRA Army Council - Wikipedia

Obviously change is gradual rather than over night and only a fool would assert that the Army Council is into micro management of SF/Ra, but at the same time up until now the final say on the direction of the movement has rested with them.

IRA's 'army council' still exists and influences Sinn Féin strategy – report

So the current proposed coronation of a Southern and Northerly Queen to the top posts in SF will allegedly mean for the first time no direct SF representation on the Army Council.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/mary-lou-mcdonald-confirmed-as-new-leader-of-sinn-féin-1.3362813

Michelle O'Neill to seek position of Sinn Fein deputy leader

The more cynical among us may be tempted to attribute this to the fact that the AC has been a men only club and wants to remain that way.

But being of more generous spirit I am happy to give credit were it is due and welcome Sf distancing itself from the Ra.
The transition from a wing to a party may have finally begun, so its a well done from moi and I look forward to the next generation of SF voters not having to hang their heads in shame...
I honestly don't care who influences SF. So long as they adhere to democratic principles. Taking a young man and beating him to death with approval of SF/IRA ain't normal behavior in a democratic party
Don't be a dim wit and say they did not give the nod
 

king5494

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I honestly don't care who influences SF. So long as they adhere to democratic principles. Taking a young man and beating him to death with approval of SF/IRA ain't normal behavior in a democratic party
Don't be a dim wit and say they did not give the nod
The Republican movement near the end of the troubles was ideological but also had within it criminal thuggish and yes murdering elements, the GFA changed their world, all of a sudden they had to respect the States North and South's laws, not all agreed with that and were used to having the mini fiefdoms especially along the border, as it is today. Just as the original Sinn Fein broke up and split into various political (FF & FG) and more thuggish Blue Shirts.

My opinion is that over 20 years later anything done by ex elements of the now extinct IRA and other thugs is just been used by the establishment to muddy the waters just for political gain as it feels threatened by a movement previously more represented in working class areas but now actually gaining some traction in middle class areas as well.

The State old guard feel threatened, if they try to put a lid on it to hold back this movement by having more FF+FG and the Green (were all going to die brigade), pressure will just continue to mount and eventually explode.

The old Political elite can change slowly to allow this and adapt or keep sticking fingers in the dyke until it runs out of fingers.
 

riker1969

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Belfast SF headquarters authorise most punishment beatings. That needs to stop
 

riker1969

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I have tried a few times to insert the URL of the article but this site or my phone won't allow me. Goggle punishment beatings Irish independent and the latest artc
 

riker1969

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I believe there are two types of thugs. Thugs in suits and thugs in hoodies if you follow.
The establishment must accept that SF have elements that it must get rid of. But it will take time. Perhaps SF will have to do what SFWP did and get rid of it's IRA links. It broke away and formed a new party Democratic left
 

McSlaggart

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I have tried a few times to insert the URL of the article but this site or my phone won't allow me. Goggle punishment beatings Irish independent and the latest artc
Some gardai believe there is a relation between IRA punishment violence and elections as attacks on persistent criminals or vandals are popular in some working-class areas. Sinn Fein vehemently denies there is any such correlation.

 

Dame_Enda

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I have tried a few times to insert the URL of the article but this site or my phone won't allow me. Goggle punishment beatings Irish independent and the latest artc
Most of the punishment beatings in NI are by Loyalists. Apparently around 60%. Dissident Republicans are at it too. Not sure if PIRA still involved.
 

riker1969

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Most of the punishment beatings in NI are by Loyalists. Apparently around 60%. Dissident Republicans are at it too. Not sure if PIRA still involved.
The article made it clear SF was approving the beatings. However your point is valid the Loyalists are at it too but loyalist terrorists never got much of an electoral mandate
 

Talk Back

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The article made it clear SF was approving the beatings. However your point is valid the Loyalists are at it too but loyalist terrorists never got much of an electoral mandate
They didn't need it - Unionism had an artificial veto on democracy in Ireland.

That veto is gone now and our country will be reunified soon - very soon.
 

riker1969

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They didn't need it - Unionism had an artificial veto on democracy in Ireland.

That veto is gone now and our country will be reunified soon - very soon.
Depends on what you mean by soon. Unless SF get into power there will be no referendum on unity. Even if they do it would have to be worked out how unity would be achieved. If Brexit taught us anything it's that a simplistic yes or no referendum is a bad idea.
So on the outside I don't see unity within ten years. Plus don't assume a referendum would pass.
 

Talk Back

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Depends on what you mean by soon. Unless SF get into power there will be no referendum on unity. Even if they do it would have to be worked out how unity would be achieved. If Brexit taught us anything it's that a simplistic yes or no referendum is a bad idea.
So on the outside I don't see unity within ten years. Plus don't assume a referendum would pass.
The UK won't last 10 years - Scotland will see to that.
 


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