The Preamble to Bunreacht na hÉireann: Time to Change?

With regard to any amendment to the preamble of the Constitution, would you prefer to:

  • Leave it as it is (I approve of the current text)

    Votes: 55 17.1%
  • Leave it as it is (It's not worth the hassle)

    Votes: 39 12.1%
  • Change to long secular preamble

    Votes: 17 5.3%
  • Change to a short secular preamble

    Votes: 160 49.8%
  • Frankly, my dear, I just don't give a damn

    Votes: 50 15.6%

  • Total voters
    321
  • Poll closed .


Al Gebra

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Don't think that'll work either. O.P. is looking for a secular constitution here. (I think)
I wasn't being serious.
I think the preamble is pretty redundant just a simple statement of intent like Cato's above would suffice.

Maybe even something like seabhcan's:

"Here's the constitution of Ireland."
 

james5001

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Cato

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My version: Here we are, Born to be kings, We're the princes of the universe, Here we belong, Fighting to survive, In a world with the darkest powers, And here we are, We're the princes of the universe, Here we belong, Fighting for survival, We've come to be the rules of your world, I am immortal, I have inside me blood of kings, I have no rival, No man can be my equal, Take me to the future of your world And now, the Constitution:
This.
 

james5001

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ruserious

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Not really - if it is a Constitution for the 26 County state Known as Ireland then obviously Unification hasn't happened.
It would be an aspiration, as it is in article 3 currently:
recognising that a united Ireland
shall be brought about only by peaceful means with the consent of a majority of the people, democratically
expressed, in both jurisdictions in the island.
 

james5001

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eurlex

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There are a few other sections that could be changed.

Article 6.1.

All powers of government, legislative, executive and judicial, derive, under God, from the people, whose right it is to designate the rulers of the State and, in final appeal, to decide all questions of national policy, according to the requirements of the common good.
Delete 'under God'.

Article 12.8.

The President shall enter upon his office by taking and subscribing publicly, in the presence of members of both Houses of the Oireachtas, of Judges of the Supreme Court and of the High Court, and other public personages, the following declaration:

“In the presence of Almighty God I , do solemnly and sincerely promise and declare
that I will maintain the Constitution of Ireland and uphold its laws, that I will fulfil my duties faithfully and conscientiously in accordance with the Constitution and the law, and that I will dedicate my abilities to the service and welfare of the people
of Ireland. May God direct and sustain me.”
Change 'In the presence of Almighty God' to 'Before the people of Ireland', delete 'May God direct and sustain me.'

Article 31.4.

Every member of the Council of State shall at the first meeting thereof which he attends as a member take and subscribe a declaration in the following form:

“In the presence of Almighty God I do solemnly and sincerely promise and declare that I will faithfully and conscientiously fulfil my duties as a member of the Council of State.”
Change 'In the presence of Almighty God' to 'Before those present'.

Article 34.5.1.

Every person appointed a judge under this Constitution shall make and subscribe the following declaration:

“In the presence of Almighty God I do solemnly and sincerely promise and declare that I will duly and faithfully and to the best of my knowledge and power execute the office of Chief Justice (or as the case may be) without fear or favour, affection or ill-will towards any man, and that I will uphold the Constitution and the laws. May God direct and sustain me."
Change 'In the presence of Almighty God' to 'Before those present'. Delete 'May God direct and sustain me.'

Article 44.1.

The State acknowledges that the homage of public worship is due to Almighty God. It shall hold His Name in reverence, and shall respect and honour religion.
Delete entirely.

At end of constitution.

Dochum Glóire Dé agus Onóra na hÉireann
Delete 'Glóire Dé agus'. Change to Dochum Onóra na hÉireann
 

ruserious

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Then it needs to be worded as an aspiration in the preamble, if it is to be mentioned at all in a preamble.
the unity of our country restored
That is an aspiration. It could be worded better (add in peacefully) but still an aspiration.
 

cabledude

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I wasn't being serious.
I think the preamble is pretty redundant just a simple statement of intent like Cato's above would suffice.

Maybe even something like seabhcan's:

"Here's the constitution of Ireland."
Of course, I know you weren't. But politics seems to thrive on making the most simple and mundane, complex and full of waffle. This preamble is waffle.
 

TommyO'Brien

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Obama had the same idea yesterday on the 150th anniversary of the Gettysburg address.....


[video=youtube;2P8DeSpBU98]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2P8DeSpBU98[/video]
Actually he didn't. Obama delivered what is known as the 'Nicholay verision', which is widely thought to be the actual text as drafted by Lincoln and brought with him to the battle site, or certainly the definitive first draft. It differs in a number of respects from the version written down contemporaneously by reporters. It is not clear whether Lincoln adlibbed the bits not in the speech, including the 'under God' phrase, whether the journalists misheard him (there obviously were no microphones. Lincoln also had a rather high pitched voice) or they added in extra bits. The verifiable versions in Lincoln's hand at the time the speech was delivered don't contain the 'under god' words.

Lincoln seems to have reconstructed the speech for later copying from journalist reports and that seems to be where the 'under God' came from. Whether it was a later addition by him, or something he quoted from journalists who had misheard him, is not certain.
 

eurlex

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I wasn't being serious.
I think the preamble is pretty redundant just a simple statement of intent like Cato's above would suffice.

Maybe even something like seabhcan's:

"Here's the constitution of Ireland."
[video=youtube;9CMmwVRAtaI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CMmwVRAtaI[/video]
 

james5001

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There are a few other sections that could be changed.

Article 6.1.



Delete 'under God'.

Article 12.8.



Change 'In the presence of Almighty God' to 'Before the people of Ireland', delete 'May God direct and sustain me.'

Article 31.4.



Change 'In the presence of Almighty God' to 'Before those present'.

Article 34.5.1.



Change 'In the presence of Almighty God' to 'Before those present'. Delete 'May God direct and sustain me.'

Article 44.1.



Delete entirely.

At end of constitution.



Delete 'Glóire Dé agus'. Change to Dochum Onóra na hÉireann
Sure you may as well change the whole thing then.
 


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