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The Private Landed Property Delusion


Cael

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Richard Dawkins made a fortune with a book called the God Delusion. The ironic thing is that this fortune is the result of another delusion that Richard keeps very quiet about - the delusion of private property. Needless to say, private property has no objective existence - its entirely made up. Private property is not a property of nature. It takes violent men to enforce the belief in it on a population that mostly has no private property. Now, you may say that owning a toothbrush is private property, so it is, but owning a tooth brush has no disasterous effect on the human race. Private property in the means of production is the basis of slavery, war and genocide.

Dawkins condemns belief in God for causing wars and the deaths of millions of people. But, in reality, no war has ever been fought about religion. War is fought because of the delusion of private landed property. That Dawkins has not mentioned this fact, marks him down as a charlatan. Im sure he is living under the delusion of private landed property himself. All the millions of people sold into slavery, were kidnapped, tortured and sold, because of the delusion of private landed property.

Is it not time that we woke up from this genocidal delusion?
 

Cael

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Do you know the American Revolution,was really about greed for more land?
I wouldnt be surprised, a chara. It also had to do with the colonies not being allowed to break free from Bank of England economic control.
 

TaxHavenSite

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I wouldnt be surprised, a chara. It also had to do with the colonies not being allowed to break free from Bank of England economic control.
No it was more about the Brits sending in more troops,to protect the colonists from Indian raids,that were caused by colonists taking over more land. Eventually they were told they couldnt take more land,so the weathly decided to overthrow the british gov't in the colonies.
 

Sync

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If we didn't have a system of private property ruled by law, that the majority of the population in western countries buy into, what would replace it ?

1) a happy clappy utopia in which everyone shares everything and lives in peace

2) a more violent world in which the most violent and agressive men take what they want
Looking at some of the apologists here for the biggest mass murderers in history, their answer would probably be that there's no difference between those 2 options.
 

Cael

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If we didn't have a system of private property ruled by law, that the majority of the population in western countries buy into, what would replace it ?

1) a happy clappy utopia in which everyone shares everything and lives in peace

2) a more violent world in which the most violent and agressive men take what they want
The point is that private landed property is the legalisation of 2) Its an agreement between the violent and agressive men that they will stop killing each other, and protect each others ill gotten gains against the dispossessed majority.
 

Cael

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Looking at some of the apologists here for the biggest mass murderers in history, their answer would probably be that there's no difference between those 2 options.
Whats the matter Sync, couldnt find an excuse to move this thread too? You might have the decency to just stay off any threads that I start, because you have nothing intelligent to contribute anyway.
 

Cael

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What's your alternative ?

How would it work ?


This is the point at which communists usually exit debates stage left.
The only real hope for the human race is to nationalise the land and vital industries and divide society's production into Soviets, based on Direct Democracy.
 

bokuden

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I don't think you're being fair to Dawkins. . Evolution may be accepted as an undeniable fact whether one owns a house or not. Not so if one believes in the Bible verbatim.
 

Cael

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Going back to Dawkins for a moment, there is always a rash of "brave" campaigners jumping forward to overthrow a power that is already no longer a power. Religion is no longer a real power in the world, so its easy for the likes of Dawkins to make lots of money kicking a dead horse. But, private landed property is just as strong a delusion today as Catholic dogma was in the middle ages, and anyone who speaks out against it certainly will not be treated as a media darling, as Dawkins is. True, they wont be burned at the stake, like the inquisition would have done, but they will be burned in other ways.
 

Sync

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Whats the matter Sync, couldnt find an excuse to move this thread too? You might have the decency to just stay off any threads that I start, because you have nothing intelligent to contribute anyway.
My point is (and it's not solely aimed at you) is that many of the people who rattle on about giving the land "back to the people" inevitably get around to holding up Stalin as one of their rolemodels for doing that. Skipping over the fact that he oversaw the killings of millions of people and that collectivization directly led to the famine in the 30s that caused the death of 7 million.

Where has your idea worked? 4500 years of recorded history, where has it ever worked? It's been tried and has led to nothing but death, destruction and ruin.
 

Cato

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The only real hope for the human race is to nationalise the land and vital industries and divide society's production into Soviets, based on Direct Democracy.
Sounds great. However, as before, I'd like to know a few things before we start: Has it ever successfully been tried before? Where and when and why did it fail? Is there any place currently implementing these ideas on a large scale and for a sustained period of time? What is the basis for your confidence that it will work - where's the evidence? Finally, what is the ultimate goal of all this?
 

Cael

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I don't think you're being fair to Dawkins. . Evolution may be accepted as an undeniable fact whether one owns a house or not. Not so if one believes in the Bible verbatim.
Evolution is not really in question. The Catholic church accepts evolution and the big bang. Neither one of them contradicts the idea of God.
 

Cael

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Sounds great. However, as before, I'd like to know a few things before we start: Has it ever successfully been tried before? Where and when and why did it fail? Is there any place currently implementing these ideas on a large scale and for a sustained period of time? What is the basis for your confidence that it will work - where's the evidence? Finally, what is the ultimate goal of all this?
We've had this discussion before. You are putting forward precisely the same questions as were put to those who wanted to end legal slavery. They were right, no society had ever existed without some form of slavery, so it was impossible to prove that society could exist at all without slavery. In the end, its a matter of deciding that slavery is wrong and wage slavery based on private landed property is also wrong.
 

Cael

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My point is (and it's not solely aimed at you) is that many of the people who rattle on about giving the land "back to the people" inevitably get around to holding up Stalin as one of their rolemodels for doing that. Skipping over the fact that he oversaw the killings of millions of people and that collectivization directly led to the famine in the 30s that caused the death of 7 million.

Where has your idea worked? 4500 years of recorded history, where has it ever worked? It's been tried and has led to nothing but death, destruction and ruin.
When you stop abusing your position as a mod, I will speak to you. Until then, you are a persona non grata.
 

Cael

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What about the earth in the Star Trek series? Is that how we should be like?
I cant say as I know how that is, but on the Enterprise itself, its clearly a Communist society where scarsity has been eliminated.
 

Cato

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We've had this discussion before. You are putting forward precisely the same questions as were put to those who wanted to end legal slavery. They were right, no society had ever existed without some form of slavery, so it was impossible to prove that society could exist at all without slavery. In the end, its a matter of deciding that slavery is wrong and wage slavery based on private landed property is also wrong.
That doesn't address the point to be frank. What is the basis for your confidence that your ideas will work? And by 'work' I mean without bloodshed or imprisonment on a large scale. In previous contributions you have made references to re-education camps and to the necessity of certain classes of persons being removed from society - that kind of talk makes me nervous around your ideas.

And no, before you attack a straw-man, I am not a defender of the capitalist system, and the questions I put to you I would equally pose to the Austrian capitalist-libertarian crowd.
 

LongShanks

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Does man's inate greed and ambition not negate any ideas of making communism workable?
 
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