The Public Services Card fiasco

Disillusioned democrat

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I was genuinely surprised there was no thread on this already singe the DPC's report shone a light on FG's latest clusterphuck.

There's a €60m hole in the state's finances now - enough to build 240 social houses, or a floor of the new NCH - but the Minister "responsible" doesn't believe she's done anything wrong.

The writing was on the wall 3 years ago, but the arrogant and incompetent Minister pulled on the blinkers and ploughed ahead anyway without taking any real advice or testing the waters.

This is madness - the state is lead by idiots who can't do their jobs, but feel entitled to rule over millions of more successful and competent people.
 


Lumpy Talbot

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No
It is somewhat ironic that parties such as FG would be first to laud the business-model approach to public administration can waste money to such an extent that any one of the blunderings around public spending would take out an entire boardroom at corporate level.

Shareholders have the right twice a year to move on poor management. Voters get that chance every four or five years. Something wrong somewhere.
 

Catahualpa

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The PPS card is here to stay.

The case against it is nit picking to say the least.

Data retention by State bodies is essential for cross checking purposes.

This will be Appealed by the Government and with some concessions be won.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Best of luck with the notion of getting the rural cute to carry papers. They know in the wesht how to be as ghosts in the machine.
 

Emily Davison

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The PPS card is here to stay.

The case against it is nit picking to say the least.

Data retention by State bodies is essential for cross checking purposes.

This will be Appealed by the Government and with some concessions be won.
My goodness. Something we agree upon. It’s not like the state doesn’t have loads of data on us anyway. And what exactly would we be needing to hide.
 
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Lumpy Talbot

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We live in an embedded world whether we like it or not. I had to notify a change in status in an area of endeavour I'm involved in via social media and was curious to see who would notice it first. Within 15 minutes a chap in New York who is a friend/work contact had emailed me about it, long before anyone sitting nearby.

I don't think the data itself is a threat. The way the data can be nudged into convergence definitely is though.

I was at a meeting in the last two years where one of the subjects under discussion was data coming back from 'smart' TVs. The customers are delighted I am sure with their smart TV that they can email and talk to and allow run their central heating profile and feed the dog on time and so on but they don't realise how much data and information they are sharing the other way down the pipe.

TV preferences and habits, the rhythm of movement within the house as lights go on and off, whether someone is home or not, a profile of who is at home and where they are in the house, whether they are on the phone and to whom...

Data convergence in the wrong hands is a real existential threat in my opinion.
 

shiel

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It is declared illegal when the government is looking for information from people who are asking for public money in a country that was bankrupt recently.

How ****ing pathetic is that?

Facebook get information night noon and morning and nobody bats an eyelid.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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Facebook are one of the small group of global companies you'd never want to see merge with Goldman Sachs.

Because the result would be SkyNet.
 

wombat

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The PPS card is here to stay.

The case against it is nit picking to say the least.
Usual media hysteria about sweet FA. The card was brought in to allow easier access to social welfare payments. It can be still used for the purpose for which it was intended. It can't be used for other purposes unless specific laws are passed. Its ironic to see people getting their knickers in a twist about govt holding personal data and complaining on social media. :)
 

Baron von Biffo

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It is declared illegal when the government is looking for information from people who are asking for public money in a country that was bankrupt recently.

How ****ing pathetic is that?

Facebook get information night noon and morning and nobody bats an eyelid.
Well that's a pretty comprehensive misunderstanding of the matter.

The DPC said that use of the card for social welfare purposes is permitted, the illegality is when the state insists on using it for other services such as driving licenses.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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Actually if you are going to introduce such a system the uptake I'd suggest would be much more voluntary if clearly restricted to access to public services and could not be used otherwise as a demand by government.

Not a bad line in the sand, that.
 

Disillusioned democrat

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It is declared illegal when the government is looking for information from people who are asking for public money in a country that was bankrupt recently.

How ****ing pathetic is that?

Facebook get information night noon and morning and nobody bats an eyelid.
Like many/most things FG have managed to fu*ck up it's not the "what", it's the "how" and/or the "why".

Few would argue that a real public service card is a good idea and they have had years to get this right, but instead a FG minister's ambition, arrogance and ego got the better of due process and now we're €60m less well off.

A PSC should be seen as a benefit to its owner, not a threat - I should know why have one and be please to have it, safe in the knowledge that it's going to make the public sector more accessible, more efficient and more equitable....instead it was forced on people using bullying and threats, there was obscurity and now, it seems also illegality.
 

shiel

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Well that's a pretty comprehensive misunderstanding of the matter.

The DPC said that use of the card for social welfare purposes is permitted, the illegality is when the state insists on using it for other services such as driving licenses.
It is all public money that we do not want wasted so we make sure it is not wasted by looking for information.

This racket is just so much shite.
 

Baron von Biffo

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It is all public money that we do not want wasted so we make sure it is not wasted by looking for information.

This racket is just so much shite.
Oh dear. The DPC has said there's no problem with the card when it's used for that purpose.

The problem arises when the state attempts illegally to use it for other reasons.
 

shiel

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Oh dear. The DPC has said there's no problem with the card when it's used for that purpose.

The problem arises when the state attempts illegally to use it for other reasons.
Great article by someone who has since died.

Noel Whelan: Public services card row is silly season nonsense
Data-protection watchdog should know better than to fan the flames of the controversy

Fri, Sep 1, 2017, 05:00

image.jpg
Noel Whelan





21


image.jpg
‘Silly-season syndrome is the only thing which could explain how, after 2.8m people have already taken up the public service card, it has suddenly become a supposedly massive political issue.’
 

Disillusioned democrat

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Great article by someone who has since died.

Noel Whelan: Public services card row is silly season nonsense
Data-protection watchdog should know better than to fan the flames of the controversy

Fri, Sep 1, 2017, 05:00

image.jpg
Noel Whelan





21


image.jpg
‘Silly-season syndrome is the only thing which could explain how, after 2.8m people have already taken up the public service card, it has suddenly become a supposedly massive political issue.’
That....OR, you know, the law and stuff...
 

Dedogs

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i had to get 1 of them to get me license am i due compo????
 

Disillusioned democrat

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i had to get 1 of them to get me license am i due compo????
That, indeed, is the BIG question - did you feel bullied into getting one? Was there an emotional impact? Did you feel the state wronged you?

Of course the state doesn't allow class action suits, so it will be up to every individual to fight against the "might" of the state - basically where they'll use YOUR money to hire the most expensive barrister to argue against YOU, so it's very unlikely anyone will actually do anything - but hold that thought until the next GE and vote accordingly.
 

Dedogs

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That, indeed, is the BIG question - did you feel bullied into getting one? Was there an emotional impact? Did you feel the state wronged you?

Of course the state doesn't allow class action suits, so it will be up to every individual to fight against the "might" of the state - basically where they'll use YOUR money to hire the most expensive barrister to argue against YOU, so it's very unlikely anyone will actually do anything - but hold that thought until the next GE and vote accordingly.
a its allright,,,, ill get over it.... :D :D :D
 


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