The radical left and Islamism (The enemy of my enemy is my friend)

Kevin Parlon

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Hello. Before this get's modded into "Foreign Affairs" I would like to say that this is very much not about the recent Israeli incursion into Gaza. (It is perhaps worth mentioning that I regret the fact that it couldn't be so classified). And, given the recent noise, please take that to mean an open invitation not to bring Israel into this.

No, it’s not about any particular incident but rather about the strange alliance that appears to exist between Islamists and the radical left. The kind of association I am talking about is perhaps best exemplified (in the UK) by Ken Livingstone and George Galloway.

In a thesis, popularised by Nick Cohen the left seem to be following "the enemy of my enemy..." notion such that, "What is new is that since the death of socialism, they are prepared to indulge the extreme religious right as long as it is anti-American. The reflex is essentially the same, as is the delusion that these are in some way 'progressive' forces."

Please, I don't for a moment want to suggest that a great majority of people who protested in Dublin did so for any other reasons other than expressing dismay at the killing of innocents.

That said, given a) the propensity for the far left to associate themselves heavily with the recent anti-war demonstrations (e.g. Sinn Fein) and b) the propensity of these same demonstrations to take on overtly religious and islamist overtones (Cries of Allahu Akbar!) is the same thing happening in Ireland?

If this is hogwash, doesn't the overt presence of Islamist (read: Racist, misogynist, homophobic, totalitarian, inquisitional, imperialist, and genocidal) sentiment at these rallies give pause for thought? If it doesn't why not? Doesn't Islamism overtly stand for everything the Left doesn't?

Particularly interested in mainstream/centre left point of view. Please forgive the temerity of this first (almost*) time poster but I am particularly not interested in debating semantics with people who delight in deconstructing sentences and avoiding the main thrust of the argumnet.


Cheers,

- Kev.

*I was on the site a couple of years back with the same name but lost the log in
 
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Akrasia

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'The Radical left' as you put it are not in favour of a totalitarian islamic theocracy. There are some groups (like the SWP) who use every opportunity to self promote and will get in bed with anyone if they think it will get them more members, but over all, the vast majority of activists are anti imperialists and are against the Israeli violence because it is indiscriminate collective punishment. It is domination of the weak by the strong.

The Left are also against abusing and torturing prisoners incarcarated in jails, not because we support rapists and murderers or because we consider them to be allies or 'friends' but because abusing positions of power to cause unnecessary severe harm for one's own perverse gain is quite simply wrong.
 

MacCoise

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Shopuld the left ignore injustice just because others are against it too?
 

DeathKnell

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Hello. Before this get's modded into "Foreign Affairs" I would like to say that this is very much not about the recent Israeli incursion into Gaza. (It is perhaps worth mentioning that I regret the fact that it couldn't be so classified). And, given the recent noise, please take that to mean an open invitation not to bring Israel into this.

No, it’s not about any particular incident but rather about the strange alliance that appears to exist between Islamists and the radical left. The kind of association I am talking about is perhaps best exemplified (in the UK) by Ken Livingstone and George Galloway.

In a thesis, popularised by Nick Cohen the left seem to be following "the enemy of my enemy..." notion such that, "What is new is that since the death of socialism, they are prepared to indulge the extreme religious right as long as it is anti-American. The reflex is essentially the same, as is the delusion that these are in some way 'progressive' forces."

Please, I don't for a moment want to suggest that a great majority of people who protested in Dublin did so for any other reasons other than expressing dismay at the killing of innocents.

That said, given a) the propensity for the far left to associate themselves heavily with the recent anti-war demonstrations (e.g. Sinn Fein) and b) the propensity of these same demonstrations to take on overtly religious and islamist overtones (Cries of Allahu Akbar!) is the same thing happening in Ireland?

If this is hogwash, doesn't the overt presence of Islamist (read: Racist, misogynist, homophobic, totalitarian, inquisitional, imperialist, and genocidal) sentiment at these rallies give pause for thought? If it doesn't why not? Doesn't Islamism overtly stand for everything the Left doesn't?

Particularly interested in mainstream/centre left point of view. Please forgive the temerity of this first (almost*) time poster but I am particularly not interested in debating semantics with people who delight in deconstructing sentences and avoiding the main thrust of the argumnet.


Cheers,

- Kev.

*I was on the site a couple of years back with the same name but lost the log in

I agree with the thrust of your arguments.. The left get into bed with some very strange bedfellows. The Antagonism seems to be directed in the main with anything to do with America - Globalism - Israel.. The arguments get lost and tiresome and shrill with every tenuous connection 'with the great satan' as they get more and more indignantly righteous. The brow beating of anyone and classification with an 'ism' of some description is particularly galling. Socialism as practised in these cold wet Islands is preoccupied with pidgeon holing people, classification into Pro US, anti US, good and evil, left and right.. in the main I find people of vociferously left nature to be pompous hypocratic and usually well off, kvnts ..
I have opinions of people on the neo-con right as well but thats a different thread.
 

Kevin Parlon

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Shopuld the left ignore injustice just because others are against it too?
No, but that wasn't the question I was trying to pose.
 

Kevin Parlon

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Truth.ie

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I took part in a recent demo, and i would like a definition of "left" before labelling myself.
I'm anti Imperialist, anti abortion in some cases , pro death penalty in some cases,support gay civil unions but not adoptions, support social welfare but not for everyone, support the rights of refugees but not economic migrants, and so on.
Did you ever think that maybe the Irish people empathise with the people of Gaza as they are disgusted by the images and also the inaction of the West. That they also empathise with an occupied people. This has ******************** all with right wing or left wing. Right wing elements supported the Taliban against the Russians. now that was political opportunism in the 1st degree.
 

setanta

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'The Radical left' as you put it are not in favour of a totalitarian islamic theocracy. There are some groups (like the SWP) who use every opportunity to self promote and will get in bed with anyone if they think it will get them more members, but over all, the vast majority of activists are anti imperialists and are against the Israeli violence because it is indiscriminate collective punishment. It is domination of the weak by the strong.

The Left are also against abusing and torturing prisoners incarcarated in jails, not because we support rapists and murderers or because we consider them to be allies or 'friends' but because abusing positions of power to cause unnecessary severe harm for one's own perverse gain is quite simply wrong.
Akrasia is right on this. if you take a look at the history of Respect and other similar Hard Left projects in the UK it is clear that the SWP, in particular, see radical Islamists as partners in putting feet on the street, votes in the ballot box and bums on seats in organisations they want to leaad. The relationship is one of mutual exploitation.

However, such micro-Left groups, while they may make a lot of noise (criticism of which behavour at recent Free Gaza marches can be seen at indymedia.ie) they do not represent teh broader views of peopel on what you term the radical Left. Their opposition to what is happening in Gaza has much more to do with basic concern for other human beings and the desire to express solidarity with them than with any attachment, implied or otherwise, to the medieval bullplop that is radical Islam.
 

Xipe Totec

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progressives and nationalist reactionaries often find themselves on the same side of the conflict because they are both opposed to imperialism, albeit for different reasons.

the fact is that islamists are by far the most active anti-imperialist forces; if you consider this to be the greatest force of oppression of the people (and theres a strong case) then it makes sense to enter into a tactical alliance with islamists, despite their reactionary views.

especially since, for example, the economic right has no problem jumping into bed with religious/social conservatives in order to better oppress others....
 

Oblivion

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the fact is that islamists are by far the most active anti-imperialist forces.
In other words, the same brainwashed c**ts who scream: "Islam will dominate the world!!" - also consider themselves to be "anti-imperialist".

How convenient.

Here's a very interesting article from the Irish Independent about this topic. In France, for example, Jewish kids are now being turned away from some schools, for fear of "offending the muslim pupils". It's insane.

Not anti-Semitic - 'just anti-Israeli' - Ian O'Doherty - Independent.ie

On a side note, this video clip just about sums up a glaring double-standard for me. Would any other group be allowed to openly scream obseneties like this, without facing criminal charges of incitement to hatred?

YouTube - Palestinians Taunt Jews to 'Go Back to the Oven'

Personally, I'm against the current Israeli aggression. They've gone WAY too far - killing hundreds of civilians in what are little more than naked acts of vengeance wrought on defenceless civilians. But this certainly does not justify the bitter hatred of ALL the Jews. The alliance between the far-left and Islam - largely in their common seething hatred of America, as well as the "privileged white majority" that must, in their eyes, be brought down - is what Mark Steyn refers to as the "unholy alliance". These two groups, brought together by their shared hatred, actually have virtually zero in common. They stand for totally opposing viewpoints.

Yet, in the short term, they're doing quite nicely as bed fellows.
 
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Trampas

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These two groups, brought together by their shared hatred, actually have virtually zero in common. They stand for totally opposing viewpoints.

Yet, in the short term, they're doing quite nicely as bed fellows.

They are, and that will continue until the sinister ones are no longer useful, at which point they will be propelled from the bed, just like those lefties during the Iranian revolution.
As far as the Marx/Muhammed alliance is concerned there can be only one dominant ideology. The useful idiots will be jettisoned..... or strung up from a crane.
 

Barry

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Hello. Before this get's modded into "Foreign Affairs" I would like to say that this is very much not about the recent Israeli incursion into Gaza. (It is perhaps worth mentioning that I regret the fact that it couldn't be so classified). And, given the recent noise, please take that to mean an open invitation not to bring Israel into this.

No, it’s not about any particular incident but rather about the strange alliance that appears to exist between Islamists and the radical left. The kind of association I am talking about is perhaps best exemplified (in the UK) by Ken Livingstone and George Galloway.

In a thesis, popularised by Nick Cohen the left seem to be following "the enemy of my enemy..." notion such that, "What is new is that since the death of socialism, they are prepared to indulge the extreme religious right as long as it is anti-American. The reflex is essentially the same, as is the delusion that these are in some way 'progressive' forces."

Please, I don't for a moment want to suggest that a great majority of people who protested in Dublin did so for any other reasons other than expressing dismay at the killing of innocents.

That said, given a) the propensity for the far left to associate themselves heavily with the recent anti-war demonstrations (e.g. Sinn Fein) and b) the propensity of these same demonstrations to take on overtly religious and islamist overtones (Cries of Allahu Akbar!) is the same thing happening in Ireland?

If this is hogwash, doesn't the overt presence of Islamist (read: Racist, misogynist, homophobic, totalitarian, inquisitional, imperialist, and genocidal) sentiment at these rallies give pause for thought? If it doesn't why not? Doesn't Islamism overtly stand for everything the Left doesn't?

Particularly interested in mainstream/centre left point of view. Please forgive the temerity of this first (almost*) time poster but I am particularly not interested in debating semantics with people who delight in deconstructing sentences and avoiding the main thrust of the argumnet.


Cheers,

- Kev.

*I was on the site a couple of years back with the same name but lost the log in
The SWP do not constitute the "radical left". So a broad sweeping remark there.


But to the point. The left I think should resist the agenda of capitalist regimes when they seek to legitimize their actions.

Islam is not a major issue and never was, in real terms. It is an issue because it suits the goals of the British and US regimes to make it one.

Muslims are being isolated, stereotyped and being met with hostility within British society. This is spun up by the media and state. The only ones who gain are the state.

Resisting this, irrespective of what social group it may be, is progressive. Its counter productive to join in with the hostility and even harder to stay neutral while this occurs.

Defending ordinary muslims from an onslaught of attack has nothing to do with Islamism. where you get that nonsense im not sure.
 

myksav

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The radical left and Islamism (The enemy of my enemy is my friend)

Ah, I must be of the "radical right" then.
See my tag line. (which seems to have disappeared)

Seeing as my signature doesn't want to come up automatically, here it is.

The enemy of my enemy is the enemy of my enemy.
 
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He3

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that is a fine tag line myksav
 

Trampas

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Muslims are being isolated, stereotyped and being met with hostility within British society.

Now why would that be I wonder ? Perhaps it has something to do with 9/11, 7/7, 21/7, the attempted incineration of hundreds of clubbers, and of course the attempted incineration of the children of Glasgow. If Muslims feel they are being "stereotyped" then their representatives have the option of attempting to change any such stereotype by taking action against the jihadists in their midst, although I won't be holding my breath.
 

Thac0man

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I posted a thread on this before. The strange thing is that the radical left, as it describes itself, does not only jump into bed with religous Zeolots, but in doing so often abandons actual Leftists.

In Lebanon there is strong Leftist movement, but support for that has all but been abandoned by radical leftists in favour of Hezzbollah. In Palestine, Fatah with its PLO origins and past links to the Radical Left is abandoned in favour of Hamas. In that situation there is no desire expressed to defend Fatahs shortcomings, but rather absolute acceptance that Fatah must be removed - a belief completely in line with Hamas. So again the 'radical left' sides with the religous extremists.

Interesting link at the start of this thread as regards Iran. Iran is consistantly supported by the Radical Left, yet there is an Iranian left which has been and is subject to ongoing persecution since the revolution. One would imagine that after a few decades of weathering this onslaught from Tehran the Iranian left would illicit some sympathy from European Leftists - but instead they are wholly ignored.

Move further east and there is yet more evidance of Islamic agression towards real Leftism. From the active supression of trade unions to the mass slaughter in 1965-66 of an estimated 250,000 suspected leftists in Indonesia. Yet even that momumental slaughter of Leftist activitist and supporters is something that most on the Radical Left have chosen to entirely ignore, let alone commerate.

It leads to one inescapable conclusion, that the "Radical Left" is not Leftist at all in any idiological sense, but has become almost entirely swayed by Right Wing goals and enamored with Right Wing methods. There is certainly no solidarity and no love for international Socialism. Those things it seems have been abandoned (if they were ever embraced anyway).

There is one question that is answered though, "is the Far Right going to rise again?". The answer is its already here.
 
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