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The real cost of Quarryvale


alonso

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2006
Messages
2,573
Before I start, does anyone else think that politics.ie just isn't complete as an Irish political resource without a dedicated Corruption forum?

Anyway, after years of bleating, denials, tut-tutting, Moscow car crashes, illnesses, death of the boss, and Fianna Fail rule, I thought it apt that the Irish Times brought the true scandal of planning corruption back into the public domain today with the following articles:

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/irelan ... 22529.html


On the green fields opposite Liffey Valley's retail parks, two O'Callaghan Properties signs are erected by the road.

"Future Bus Terminal", reads one. "Site For Offices, Civic Buildings and Medical Centre", announces another. Almost a decade after they were erected, they are faded and even a little battered. The site remains vacant...

People like the Liffey Valley shopping centre, Forte says, though she adds that most of the shops are out of the price range of most Neilstown residents. "No, it's for people in their big cars on the M50," she says.


http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/irelan ... 22521.html

In May 1991, Dublin County Council voted by a large majority (29-13) to relocate the "town centre" zoning from Balgaddy to Quarryvale, even though the latter is located at the northeastern extremity of the "new town" it was meant to serve - a move described by council planners as "seriously detrimental" to the 1972 county plan.

Corruption is a great unit shifter for the national media. It made for a great soap opera in the early days of the election. Some great books are written about it, and we all love to chinwag about the galway tent, the golden circle, and the shady dealings in Ireland. Great stories so they are!

However, planning corruption from the likes of Lawlor and Burke et al (possibly we're told, our Taoiseach, and most certainly a former "patriot") has left a malignant tumour on the face of suburban Dublin. It has, unlike the Radio license scandal, impacted hugely on people's everyday lives. It has destroyed a generation in Neilstown, and will continue to destroy generations of the new commuter belt; the ghettoes of the future.

These articles are a harsh reminder to those of us who like to look beyond the Sunday papers, and see how these so called "public servants" have caused ongoing misery in their pursuit of prosperity at the expense of the common good.

Have lessons been learned? Absolutely not. Councillors, no longer corrupt we're told, are still rezoning vast tracts of land against professional advice. For no good obvious reason. The embedded FF-Developer axis still persists and is driving the creation of the Neilstowns and Jobstowns of the 21st Century.

This aspect of administration in this country has come into sharper focus even more in the last few days, as the Greens go about propping up another malignant FF government. I vote Green and I urge all their members to read these articles and think about them on Sunday.

The people of Neilstown have had enough, but as the article states, they don't even vote. The question is have Gormley, Ryan, Cuffe et al had enough? Are they willing to be an accomplice to the ongoing environmental and social destruction wrought by FF in the last 10 years?

I sincerely hope not.
 

mountainyman

Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2006
Messages
36
alonso said:
People like the Liffey Valley shopping centre, Forte says, though she adds that most of the shops are out of the price range of most Neilstown residents. "No, it's for people in their big cars on the M50," she says.
There's an element of bullsh!t there. A visit to the liffey valley shows that teh overwhelming majority of the patrons are working class and many are from the 'lumpen scum' class.

MM
 

Norfolk Enchants

Active member
Joined
Feb 9, 2006
Messages
100
alonso said:
Before I start, does anyone else think that politics.ie just isn't complete as an Irish political resource without a dedicated Corruption forum?

Anyway, after years of bleating, denials, tut-tutting, Moscow car crashes, illnesses, death of the boss, and Fianna Fail rule, I thought it apt that the Irish Times brought the true scandal of planning corruption back into the public domain today with the following articles:

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/irelan ... 22529.html


On the green fields opposite Liffey Valley's retail parks, two O'Callaghan Properties signs are erected by the road.

"Future Bus Terminal", reads one. "Site For Offices, Civic Buildings and Medical Centre", announces another. Almost a decade after they were erected, they are faded and even a little battered. The site remains vacant...

People like the Liffey Valley shopping centre, Forte says, though she adds that most of the shops are out of the price range of most Neilstown residents. "No, it's for people in their big cars on the M50," she says.


http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/irelan ... 22521.html

In May 1991, Dublin County Council voted by a large majority (29-13) to relocate the "town centre" zoning from Balgaddy to Quarryvale, even though the latter is located at the northeastern extremity of the "new town" it was meant to serve - a move described by council planners as "seriously detrimental" to the 1972 county plan.

Corruption is a great unit shifter for the national media. It made for a great soap opera in the early days of the election. Some great books are written about it, and we all love to chinwag about the galway tent, the golden circle, and the shady dealings in Ireland. Great stories so they are!

However, planning corruption from the likes of Lawlor and Burke et al (possibly we're told, our Taoiseach, and most certainly a former "patriot") has left a malignant tumour on the face of suburban Dublin. It has, unlike the Radio license scandal, impacted hugely on people's everyday lives. It has destroyed a generation in Neilstown, and will continue to destroy generations of the new commuter belt; the ghettoes of the future.

These articles are a harsh reminder to those of us who like to look beyond the Sunday papers, and see how these so called "public servants" have caused ongoing misery in their pursuit of prosperity at the expense of the common good.

Have lessons been learned? Absolutely not. Councillors, no longer corrupt we're told, are still rezoning vast tracts of land against professional advice. For no good obvious reason. The embedded FF-Developer axis still persists and is driving the creation of the Neilstowns and Jobstowns of the 21st Century.

This aspect of administration in this country has come into sharper focus even more in the last few days, as the Greens go about propping up another malignant FF government. I vote Green and I urge all their members to read these articles and think about them on Sunday.

The people of Neilstown have had enough, but as the article states, they don't even vote. The question is have Gormley, Ryan, Cuffe et al had enough? Are they willing to be an accomplice to the ongoing environmental and social destruction wrought by FF in the last 10 years?

I sincerely hope not.
Great post Alonso
 

alonso

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2006
Messages
2,573
Had FF 29 out of 42 Councillors in 1991?
I'm not sure of the numbers and I can't find it online. However I do know that Lawlor, Burke and Haughey were FFers, and we all know the origin of the vast majority of Flood/Mahon tribunal attendants. I also know that the relationships made at the Galway tent matter more to FF than minor matters like housing quality, forward planning, commuting times and social breakdown within the developer led sprawl.

There's an element of bullsh!t there. A visit to the liffey valley shows that teh overwhelming majority of the patrons are working class and many are from the 'lumpen scum' class.
True but we all know that LIffey Valley survives as a regional centre attracting money from all over Leinster. The people of Clondalkin were promised a district centre with community services within walking distance of their homes, easily accessible to the growing population. What they got was a monolithic cathedral to consumerism. A raw deal in anyones book.

"lumpen scum"? Most would see that as a reference to the group of 78 elected by likeminded ignorants...
 

salt

Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2006
Messages
33
alonso said:
Before I start, does anyone else think that politics.ie just isn't complete as an Irish political resource without a dedicated Corruption forum?

Anyway, after years of bleating, denials, tut-tutting, Moscow car crashes, illnesses, death of the boss, and Fianna Fail rule, I thought it apt that the Irish Times brought the true scandal of planning corruption back into the public domain today with the following articles:

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/irelan ... 22529.html


On the green fields opposite Liffey Valley's retail parks, two O'Callaghan Properties signs are erected by the road.

"Future Bus Terminal", reads one. "Site For Offices, Civic Buildings and Medical Centre", announces another. Almost a decade after they were erected, they are faded and even a little battered. The site remains vacant...

People like the Liffey Valley shopping centre, Forte says, though she adds that most of the shops are out of the price range of most Neilstown residents. "No, it's for people in their big cars on the M50," she says.


http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/irelan ... 22521.html

In May 1991, Dublin County Council voted by a large majority (29-13) to relocate the "town centre" zoning from Balgaddy to Quarryvale, even though the latter is located at the northeastern extremity of the "new town" it was meant to serve - a move described by council planners as "seriously detrimental" to the 1972 county plan.

Corruption is a great unit shifter for the national media. It made for a great soap opera in the early days of the election. Some great books are written about it, and we all love to chinwag about the galway tent, the golden circle, and the shady dealings in Ireland. Great stories so they are!

However, planning corruption from the likes of Lawlor and Burke et al (possibly we're told, our Taoiseach, and most certainly a former "patriot") has left a malignant tumour on the face of suburban Dublin. It has, unlike the Radio license scandal, impacted hugely on people's everyday lives. It has destroyed a generation in Neilstown, and will continue to destroy generations of the new commuter belt; the ghettoes of the future.

These articles are a harsh reminder to those of us who like to look beyond the Sunday papers, and see how these so called "public servants" have caused ongoing misery in their pursuit of prosperity at the expense of the common good.

Have lessons been learned? Absolutely not. Councillors, no longer corrupt we're told, are still rezoning vast tracts of land against professional advice. For no good obvious reason. The embedded FF-Developer axis still persists and is driving the creation of the Neilstowns and Jobstowns of the 21st Century.

This aspect of administration in this country has come into sharper focus even more in the last few days, as the Greens go about propping up another malignant FF government. I vote Green and I urge all their members to read these articles and think about them on Sunday.

The people of Neilstown have had enough, but as the article states, they don't even vote. The question is have Gormley, Ryan, Cuffe et al had enough? Are they willing to be an accomplice to the ongoing environmental and social destruction wrought by FF in the last 10 years?

I sincerely hope not.
And FG in your area
 

salt

Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2006
Messages
33
alonso said:
Before I start, does anyone else think that politics.ie just isn't complete as an Irish political resource without a dedicated Corruption forum?

Anyway, after years of bleating, denials, tut-tutting, Moscow car crashes, illnesses, death of the boss, and Fianna Fail rule, I thought it apt that the Irish Times brought the true scandal of planning corruption back into the public domain today with the following articles:

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/irelan ... 22529.html


On the green fields opposite Liffey Valley's retail parks, two O'Callaghan Properties signs are erected by the road.

"Future Bus Terminal", reads one. "Site For Offices, Civic Buildings and Medical Centre", announces another. Almost a decade after they were erected, they are faded and even a little battered. The site remains vacant...

People like the Liffey Valley shopping centre, Forte says, though she adds that most of the shops are out of the price range of most Neilstown residents. "No, it's for people in their big cars on the M50," she says.


http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/irelan ... 22521.html

In May 1991, Dublin County Council voted by a large majority (29-13) to relocate the "town centre" zoning from Balgaddy to Quarryvale, even though the latter is located at the northeastern extremity of the "new town" it was meant to serve - a move described by council planners as "seriously detrimental" to the 1972 county plan.

Corruption is a great unit shifter for the national media. It made for a great soap opera in the early days of the election. Some great books are written about it, and we all love to chinwag about the galway tent, the golden circle, and the shady dealings in Ireland. Great stories so they are!

However, planning corruption from the likes of Lawlor and Burke et al (possibly we're told, our Taoiseach, and most certainly a former "patriot") has left a malignant tumour on the face of suburban Dublin. It has, unlike the Radio license scandal, impacted hugely on people's everyday lives. It has destroyed a generation in Neilstown, and will continue to destroy generations of the new commuter belt; the ghettoes of the future.

These articles are a harsh reminder to those of us who like to look beyond the Sunday papers, and see how these so called "public servants" have caused ongoing misery in their pursuit of prosperity at the expense of the common good.

Have lessons been learned? Absolutely not. Councillors, no longer corrupt we're told, are still rezoning vast tracts of land against professional advice. For no good obvious reason. The embedded FF-Developer axis still persists and is driving the creation of the Neilstowns and Jobstowns of the 21st Century.

This aspect of administration in this country has come into sharper focus even more in the last few days, as the Greens go about propping up another malignant FF government. I vote Green and I urge all their members to read these articles and think about them on Sunday.

The people of Neilstown have had enough, but as the article states, they don't even vote. The question is have Gormley, Ryan, Cuffe et al had enough? Are they willing to be an accomplice to the ongoing environmental and social destruction wrought by FF in the last 10 years?

I sincerely hope not.
I wouldnt disagree with most of this however the same type of problems are now going on in the Sandyford/Glencullen areas where the FG/FF alliance on the council are responsible dont hear a word out of you about that.
 

Abaddon

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 29, 2005
Messages
3,184
Sorry about showing my ignorance but could one of you explain this term "lumpen scum"?
 

alonso

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2006
Messages
2,573
salt said:
I wouldnt disagree with most of this however the same type of problems are now going on in the Sandyford/Glencullen areas where the FG/FF alliance on the council are responsible dont hear a word out of you about that.
It's actually FG/Labour controlled. What's going on in Glencullen and Sandyford is also wrong. However in the case of Glencullen/Kiltiernan, there is a Local Area Plan being put in place, which is guiding development and has local input. It's far from ideal. Very far. DLR has been pressurised by the DoE to rezone practically all land that's not mountain or sea in order to meet their housing requirements. It is a poor overstretched Council executive, but to compare the mechanism used to develop Glencullen/Kiltiernan to that which brought us Quarryvale is unfair.

In the case of Sandyford IE the Council have been utterly negligent. There is no guiding statutory plan (adopted by Councillors) in place here, and every development is judged in a piecemeal manner by the executive, and ultimately the bord. A policy decision was made to redevelop this previously warehouse district into a mixed use employment/residential quarter a few years ago. However they snoozed and developers have swarmed in. But still, poor planning and negligence does not equal corruption.
 

alonso

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2006
Messages
2,573
Abaddon said:
Sorry about showing my ignorance but could one of you explain this term "lumpen scum"?
it was mountainyman's way of describing people in Shopping centres who may speak with an accent different to his, and wear tracksuits and runners rather than cords and deck shoes.
 

TheBear

Active member
Joined
May 25, 2004
Messages
234
salt said:
alonso said:
Before I start, does anyone else think that politics.ie just isn't complete as an Irish political resource without a dedicated Corruption forum?

Anyway, after years of bleating, denials, tut-tutting, Moscow car crashes, illnesses, death of the boss, and Fianna Fail rule, I thought it apt that the Irish Times brought the true scandal of planning corruption back into the public domain today with the following articles:

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/irelan ... 22529.html


On the green fields opposite Liffey Valley's retail parks, two O'Callaghan Properties signs are erected by the road.

"Future Bus Terminal", reads one. "Site For Offices, Civic Buildings and Medical Centre", announces another. Almost a decade after they were erected, they are faded and even a little battered. The site remains vacant...

People like the Liffey Valley shopping centre, Forte says, though she adds that most of the shops are out of the price range of most Neilstown residents. "No, it's for people in their big cars on the M50," she says.


http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/irelan ... 22521.html

In May 1991, Dublin County Council voted by a large majority (29-13) to relocate the "town centre" zoning from Balgaddy to Quarryvale, even though the latter is located at the northeastern extremity of the "new town" it was meant to serve - a move described by council planners as "seriously detrimental" to the 1972 county plan.

Corruption is a great unit shifter for the national media. It made for a great soap opera in the early days of the election. Some great books are written about it, and we all love to chinwag about the galway tent, the golden circle, and the shady dealings in Ireland. Great stories so they are!

However, planning corruption from the likes of Lawlor and Burke et al (possibly we're told, our Taoiseach, and most certainly a former "patriot") has left a malignant tumour on the face of suburban Dublin. It has, unlike the Radio license scandal, impacted hugely on people's everyday lives. It has destroyed a generation in Neilstown, and will continue to destroy generations of the new commuter belt; the ghettoes of the future.

These articles are a harsh reminder to those of us who like to look beyond the Sunday papers, and see how these so called "public servants" have caused ongoing misery in their pursuit of prosperity at the expense of the common good.

Have lessons been learned? Absolutely not. Councillors, no longer corrupt we're told, are still rezoning vast tracts of land against professional advice. For no good obvious reason. The embedded FF-Developer axis still persists and is driving the creation of the Neilstowns and Jobstowns of the 21st Century.

This aspect of administration in this country has come into sharper focus even more in the last few days, as the Greens go about propping up another malignant FF government. I vote Green and I urge all their members to read these articles and think about them on Sunday.

The people of Neilstown have had enough, but as the article states, they don't even vote. The question is have Gormley, Ryan, Cuffe et al had enough? Are they willing to be an accomplice to the ongoing environmental and social destruction wrought by FF in the last 10 years?

I sincerely hope not.
And FG in your area
Huh? :?
 

tonys

Active member
Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
195
alonso said:
Had FF 29 out of 42 Councillors in 1991?
I'm not sure of the numbers and I can't find it online. However I do know that Lawlor, Burke and Haughey were FFers, and we all know the origin of the vast majority of Flood/Mahon tribunal attendants. I also know that the relationships made at the Galway tent matter more to FF than minor matters like housing quality, forward planning, commuting times and social breakdown within the developer led sprawl.
You know damn well that there were a large number of FG councillors in that 29 and that, taken with your promotion of FG as ideal partners for your beloved greens demonstrates you’re perfectly happy to ignore the truth when it suits your argument, ethics my arse, it shows you for the blind hypocrite you are.

alonso said:
"lumpen scum"? Most would see that as a reference to the group of 78 elected by likeminded ignorants...
Continuing with your usual respect for the democratic process and the electorate I see or in your world is it only people who agree with you who are entitled to a modicum of respect.
 

DSCH

Active member
Joined
Feb 6, 2006
Messages
246
alonso said:
. It has, unlike the Radio license scandal, impacted hugely on people's everyday lives. It has destroyed a generation in Neilstown, and will continue to destroy generations of the new commuter belt; the ghettoes of the future.

.
I used to teach in a local school near Liffey Valley. The students thought it was a great facility. If only they knew what desolation fate holds in store for them.

What they got was a monolithic cathedral to consumerism. A raw deal in anyones book.
Only in the preachy, prissy, sentimental borgeois worldview of your typical green supporter.
 

alonso

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2006
Messages
2,573
You know damn well that there were a large number of FG councillors in that 29 and that, taken with your promotion of FG as ideal partners for your beloved greens demonstrates you’re perfectly happy to ignore the truth when it suits your argument, ethics my arse, it shows you for the blind hypocrite you are.
tonys you have defended CJH on this forum in the past. You have displayed an acceptance of criminality in LH. I know there were FGers who voted in favour of Quarryvale. However I'm not aware of any allegations against them in relation to this. FG never had a crook for a leader. FF have had one that we all know about, and it looks like we've another name to add to that list...

I also don't deny that FG councillors, and Labour and Green btw, are making awful decisions all over the country. However they are not doing so because some greasy builder is slippin them wads of cash in Conways. That;s the FF way...

Continuing with your usual respect for the democratic process and the electorate I see or in your world is it only people who agree with you who are entitled to a modicum of respect.
Excuse me? I respect democracy. I don't respect bluster and the ongoing lies to the electorate. Funny how Bertie waits until a week after the vote to come clean on the imminent economic downturn caused by his administration's idiocy. A downturn him, Biffo and everyone else said would only occur if the Rainbow got in.

On the substantive point I think the term "scum" suits drunk drivers (McDaid), the corrupt (Ahern), the incompetent (Cullen) and the liars (Cowen, Ahern, Cullen, Roche etc etc) more than working class people who shop in LV. But that's subjective I guess.

I used to teach in a local school near Liffey Valley. The students thought it was a great facility. If only they knew what desolation fate holds in store for them.
Did you link to the article and read it? The people have been cheated. Their opinion. Not mine.

Only in the preachy, prissy, sentimental borgeois worldview of your typical green supporter.
well thank God they seemed to have walked away from you. For "Preachy" read compassion for the common good, for "Prissy" read not allowing developers trounce all over the land in return for donations, bribes etc, for "Sentimental??? read forward looking and innovative rather than they way FF play to the basest redundant aspects of Irish culture,

and for "bourgeois" ffs where do you start? Apparently yesterdays talks collapsed due in some part to Green demands on education! Y'see there's no votes for FF from kids!

Amazing to see that after a decade of congestion on the M50, and ongoing social negligence, as highlighted by the article I linked to, blinkered FFers are still blindly excusing the filthy politics, and backward world view propounded by Haughey, Lawlor, Burke and a generation of dirt that masqueraded as politicians. The more things change...
 

tonys

Active member
Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
195
alonso said:
You know damn well that there were a large number of FG councillors in that 29 and that, taken with your promotion of FG as ideal partners for your beloved greens demonstrates you’re perfectly happy to ignore the truth when it suits your argument, ethics my arse, it shows you for the blind hypocrite you are.
tonys you have defended CJH on this forum in the past. You have displayed an acceptance of criminality in LH. I know there were FGers who voted in favour of Quarryvale. However I'm not aware of any allegations against them in relation to this. FG never had a crook for a leader. FF have had one that we all know about, and it looks like we've another name to add to that list...

I also don't deny that FG councillors, and Labour and Green btw, are making awful decisions all over the country. However they are not doing so because some greasy builder is slippin them wads of cash in Conways. That;s the FF way...

[quote:2hj4s0p9]Continuing with your usual respect for the democratic process and the electorate I see or in your world is it only people who agree with you who are entitled to a modicum of respect.
Excuse me? I respect democracy. I don't respect bluster and the ongoing lies to the electorate. Funny how Bertie waits until a week after the vote to come clean on the imminent economic downturn caused by his administration's idiocy. A downturn him, Biffo and everyone else said would only occur if the Rainbow got in.[/quote:2hj4s0p9]So, basically we’re all crooked, they’re all stupid and you’re overflowing with respect for everyone who agrees with you.
 

realpolitic

New member
Joined
May 25, 2007
Messages
2
Quarryvale

Quarryvale—who cares! A bone for the media perhaps, but of little interest to the public.
 

alonso

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Joined
Sep 17, 2006
Messages
2,573
not all crooked. But you accept corruption, as many FFers do. The "all" you refer to? is that the electorate? no they're not all stupid, but they have been lied to. I respect many people who disagree with me, if they disagree with me for good reason. You only disagree with me because I criticised your party, and initially because in the past I dared to criticise a dead politician...

Quarrvale is an indefensible scar on suburban Dublin. That;s the point of this post. You haven't denied that, and those who took money in return for pushing it's rezoning must take responsibilty, as do those who support them..

Is this the type of city you want? Because if it is go ahead and vote for FF. People like me want a better place to live than the one delivered by FF Builders over the past decade. That's why we voted green. Call it what you like, flaky prissy, a superiority complex or whatever. I'd call it a good decision. It's a shame more didn't agree



 

alonso

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Joined
Sep 17, 2006
Messages
2,573
Re: Quarryvale

realpolitic said:
Quarryvale—who cares! A bone for the media perhaps, but of little interest to the public.
yeh corruption, commuter nightmares, congestion, the death of traditional towns and villages, pollution, ugliness, the quality of life... no matter. maybe you're right 24/05/07 would validate you more than me
 

DSCH

Active member
Joined
Feb 6, 2006
Messages
246
alonso said:
Only in the preachy, prissy, sentimental borgeois worldview of your typical green supporter.
well thank God they seemed to have walked away from you. For "Preachy" read compassion for the common good, for "Prissy" read not allowing developers trounce all over the land in return for donations, bribes etc, for "Sentimental??? read forward looking and innovative rather than they way FF play to the basest redundant aspects of Irish culture,

and for "bourgeois" ffs where do you start? Apparently yesterdays talks collapsed due in some part to Green demands on education! Y'see there's no votes for FF from kids!

Amazing to see that after a decade of congestion on the M50, and ongoing social negligence, as highlighted by the article I linked to, blinkered FFers are still blindly excusing the filthy politics, and backward world view propounded by Haughey, Lawlor, Burke and a generation of dirt that masqueraded as politicians. The more things change...
The Green Party, like all of the parties of ideology with their coherent "forward looking" "Weltanschauung"s bombed at this election. Someday the various esoteric cultists are going to have ask why their programmes, which offer the best way forward for humanity, are rejected election after election by the electorate whose attitude ranges from indifference through to hostility.

The reality is that the masses are more interested in shopping than in political activism. And before you start invoking Enda Kenny’s “mandate for change”, a vote for the party of Michael Ring, PJ Sheehan and John Deasy is a vote for traditional politics, Irish style, with its emphasis on localism, and the shafting of the enemy within – your running mate. It is a blood sport that has no place for Daisy Chains. It is no coincidence that the Greens have only one seat outside of Dublin, in Carlow Kilkenny, and that owed more to bad vote management by FG and that aforementioned factor of localism, whereby Carlow votes stayed in Carlow even if the candidate was unelectable on “policy” and “worldview” criteria. The Greens didn’t exactly set the world alight in Dublin either, even in its out of touch middle class heartland the Greens were reliant on scraps from the FG table to see off formidable rivals from the likes of the sagacious PBP alliance!

As for the charge of bourgeois sentimentality, well you prove the point by invoking the Green’s concern for the education of OUR / “Won’t somebody please think of the” Children! Let me assure you that education in North Clondalkin is a world away from that idealised by the Greens and indeed all commentators and all political manifestos. It is a world where not every problem can be addressed by the allocation of more omnipotent “resources”.
 

Rural

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 28, 2007
Messages
27,927
DSCH said:
alonso said:
Only in the preachy, prissy, sentimental borgeois worldview of your typical green supporter.
well thank God they seemed to have walked away from you. For "Preachy" read compassion for the common good, for "Prissy" read not allowing developers trounce all over the land in return for donations, bribes etc, for "Sentimental??? read forward looking and innovative rather than they way FF play to the basest redundant aspects of Irish culture,

and for "bourgeois" ffs where do you start? Apparently yesterdays talks collapsed due in some part to Green demands on education! Y'see there's no votes for FF from kids!

Amazing to see that after a decade of congestion on the M50, and ongoing social negligence, as highlighted by the article I linked to, blinkered FFers are still blindly excusing the filthy politics, and backward world view propounded by Haughey, Lawlor, Burke and a generation of dirt that masqueraded as politicians. The more things change...
The Green Party, like all of the parties of ideology with their coherent "forward looking" "Weltanschauung"s bombed at this election. Someday the various esoteric cultists are going to have ask why their programmes, which offer the best way forward for humanity, are rejected election after election by the electorate whose attitude ranges from indifference through to hostility.

The reality is that the masses are more interested in shopping than in political activism. And before you start invoking Enda Kenny’s “mandate for change”, a vote for the party of Michael Ring, PJ Sheehan and John Deasy is a vote for traditional politics, Irish style, with its emphasis on localism, and the shafting of the enemy within – your running mate. It is a blood sport that has no place for Daisy Chains. It is no coincidence that the Greens have only one seat outside of Dublin, in Carlow Kilkenny, and that owed more to bad vote management by FG and that aforementioned factor of localism, whereby Carlow votes stayed in Carlow even if the candidate was unelectable on “policy” and “worldview” criteria. The Greens didn’t exactly set the world alight in Dublin either, even in its out of touch middle class heartland the Greens were reliant on scraps from the FG table to see off formidable rivals from the likes of the sagacious PBP alliance!

As for the charge of bourgeois sentimentality, well you prove the point by invoking the Green’s concern for the education of OUR / “Won’t somebody please think of the” Children! Let me assure you that education in North Clondalkin is a world away from that idealised by the Greens and indeed all commentators and all political manifestos. It is a world where not every problem can be addressed by the allocation of more omnipotent “resources”.
This makes us what?? a good society? My 2 boys will be voting soon, that's when things will change for the better, the only problem is, it may be too late.

I remember when Tallaght was developed in the 70's, row upon row of houses & nothing else, I remember seeing dole day with men queueing all around the Priory & only a tiny Garda Station with two Guards. There was a lack of facilities for children & teenagers, there was nothing but houses & they waited for decades for something to come in & it still isn't adequate.

Developers should have to prove their "melt" by putting in provisions for the neighbourhood first & then building their profit making.... well .....stuff
 
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