The REAL Untouchables:PWC,KPMG & Ernest & Young



athlonedub

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you wont deny its true?
That the Big 4 are dominant ? Thats a question of fact really (it's like saying that the Big 3 parties are dominant in Irish politics). If the next tier of firms were good enough, they'd be at the table already......
 

Oldira1

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That the Big 4 are dominant ? Thats a question of fact really (it's like saying that the Big 3 parties are dominant in Irish politics). If the next tier of firms were good enough, they'd be at the table already......
Good enough or crooked enough?
 

Watcher2

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It is not the job of the auditor to detect fraud.

If there is collusion between employees or seperate entities it is extremely difficult to detect wrong doing.

Also if these organisations are deemed to have done wrong there is consequences. Remember Enron and Arthur Andersen?
Itn is the jobh of the auditor to state whether accounts give a true and fair view of the company's books of account. The auditors of the banks have been found with their pants down. They obviously did not do their jobs correctly.

Consequences eh? Care to spell them out? The auditing profession got a boon from the enron and arthur anderson scam. Who do you think gets the lions share of the work from the additional regulations that flowed from those scandals?
 

Oldira1

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I would say the former but I think you'll be going for the latter !
Not necessarily. There are some fine people in all of those organisation but unfortunately the ethos of the firms themselves are whats wrong.

Too much I'll scratch your back and you scratch mine.

You hire an advisor to a former minister and I will see you get a government contract. That sort of carry on.
 

Oldira1

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It appears that Brian Lenihans cousin is a partner at PWC. Im sure he (the MOF) would be able to get interesting input (with tea at aunt Mary's) into the state of the banks prior to giving a guarantee.

PwC Ireland Services: Tax: Partner Feargal O'Rourke
In fairness that man did get first place in the Institute of Taxes exams so knows his stuff at least in that respect. I am sure that is why PWC got the contract to provide Tax advice to NAMA rather than any other reason.
 

Super8

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Everyone in Ireland has a family relative somewhere in a position of influence. There are connections all over the place so it's hard not to suspect wrong-doing. Some use those connections and some don't. And in Ireland you're considered mean or an odd ball if you don't give a relative a break for no other reason than they are related to you.

I believe in achieving through merit. Otherwise all you get is mediocre. And that would explain so much in this country.

If we were all Quakers it would have been different!
 

Nipper

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In fairness that man did get first place in the Institute of Taxes exams so knows his stuff at least in that respect. I am sure that is why PWC got the contract to provide Tax advice to NAMA rather than any other reason.

And who corrects those papers and awards marks - fellow club members!

Innocence like that so cute :)
 

Oldira1

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Fair play to Michael Noonan. Suggested today that PWC should not be paid as they got their reports so wrong about Anglo Irish Bank.
 

Libero

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Fair play to Michael Noonan. Suggested today that PWC should not be paid as they got their reports so wrong about Anglo Irish Bank.
Actually, it would be pretty funny if a new government withheld payment or sued for negligence, and PWC pointed out that they did exactly the sort of job (and reached exactly the sort of conclusions) for which they'd been retained!

So far, the government has been careful not to blame PWC for the Anglo underestimates, and the firm's financial advisory arm is still winning state and NAMA contracts.
 

Oldira1

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Actually, it would be pretty funny if a new government withheld payment or sued for negligence, and PWC pointed out that they did exactly the sort of job (and reached exactly the sort of conclusions) for which they'd been retained!

So far, the government has been careful not to blame PWC for the Anglo underestimates, and the firm's financial advisory arm is still winning state and NAMA contracts.
Lenny looked distinctly uncomfortable (I wonder why?) and mumbled something about 'forcasts being difficult'. The fact is that Ernest & Young and PWC were GROSSLY negligent...at best.
 

DCon

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And PWC (and Arthur Cox of course) are very much on the Public gravy train. I posted this on the Promissory Notes thread, but it is just as relevant here


Total amounts paid by my Department in respect of banking consultancies
Year Payees Total Paid €’000
2006 N/a €0
2007 N/a €0
2008 Arthur Cox & Co €1,628
2009 Arthur Cox & Co, Watson Wyatt Limited, Hay Group Ireland Limited €5,888
2010 Arthur Cox & Co, PricewaterhouseCoopers €3,205

The purpose of the individual contracts is as follows:

· Arthur Cox & Co – Legal advice in respect of guarantees (CIFS & ELG), nationalisation of Anglo Irish Bank, recapitalisations and restructuring plans - ongoing

· Watson Wyatt – Professional services provided to CIROC in relation to the Executive Compensation Market in Ireland and overseas – contract complete

· Hay Group Ireland Limited – Presentation to CIROC on banking remuneration – contract complete

· PricewaterhouseCoopers – Professional Fees in respect of accounting advice on promissory notes. – contract complete

The requirement for ongoing professional advice will be driven by developments in the financial markets and as such the Arthur Cox contract is not of a specified duration. The provision in the 2010 Estimate for such professional advice is €4.3m and I expect that the costs will remain within this Estimate. A further provision of €2m is included in the Vote 6 2010 Estimate in respect of the Banking Inquiry. Mr. Peter Nyberg has commenced the process of recruiting experts to assist in this Inquiry and the costs in 2010 are expected to remain within budget.

2011 Estimates are not yet finalised but it is likely that there will be a continuing need for provisions for both Banking Consultancies and the Banking Inquiry in 2011. The work of the Banking Inquiry is expected to be completed by mid-2011.
Consultancy Contracts: 29 Sep 2010: Written answers (KildareStreet.com)
 

dpbdpb

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Mar 18, 2010
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The Fitzpatrick loan was small beer and just another example of the rotten core at Anglo. The funds I was referring to are as quoted below.

'The major focus of the Garda’s investigation into Anglo centres on the lodging of €7.45 billion in deposits by Irish Life Permanent (ILP) over Anglo’s 2008 year-end, said Garda sources.'.
Agreed but your original point said this was going on for 7 years - it wasnt. it was done one year. get your facts right if you want to make credible points.
 


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