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The Reclamation of Republicanism

Irish-Rationalist

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 2, 2016
Messages
3,337
If you say you’re an Irish Republican most people automatically assume that:

a) You’re a Catholic
b) You vote for Sinn Fein
c) You supported the PIRA campaign

In fact, in Ireland the term “Republicanism” has become so contaminated by and associated with the PIRA that many Irish Nationalists who opposed that campaign are reluctant to describe themselves as Republicans.

Republicanism is an ideology of citizenship of a state where the people hold popular sovereignty, and whose head of state is a democratically elected representative chosen by the people for the people. As opposed to a monarchy, where the head of state is a hereditary monarch born into the post as of birthright. A republican is therefore someone who lives in a republic and whose allegiance is to that republic, or someone whose political aspiration is to create and live in a non-monarchist republic.

The first Republican revolutionary organisation in Ireland was the Society of United Irishmen, whose leadership was mostly composed of Presbyterians, and whose leader Wolfe Tone, was an Anglican Protestant who promoted an independent Ireland where Protestant, Catholic and Dissenter could live in peace and harmony as Irishmen and as equals. After the failed rebellion of 1798 and the consequent 1801 act of union, most Irish Protestants embraced unionism, and Republicanism became the almost exclusive preserve of Irish Catholics.

To sanitise contemporary Irish Republicanism and reclaim it for everyone regardless of religious affiliation with a desire to live in a monarchy free republic, efforts must be undertaken to once again popularise republican values, principles and objectives, and emphasise that to be an Irish republican there is no prerequisite to be:

a) A Catholic
b) A Sinn Fein voter
c) Someone who supported the PIRA campaign

I’m an Irishman and a Republican and I am none of the above. In fact, I’m an Ulster Protestant (Agnostic actually, as I believe all religion is superstitious nonsense used to control people, but Presbyterianism is the brand of superstitious nonsense I was born into but refuse to practice), I don’t vote for Sinn Fein, and was opposed to what the PIRA perpetrated in the name of Irish freedom.

To reclaim Irish Republicanism, those who aspire to live in a liberal, democratic, pluralist society where the head of state is not a privileged hereditary monarch, and where secularism takes precedence over organised religion, must undertake strenuous efforts to re-communicate the true definition of republicanism.

Republicanism is a political ideology in opposition to monarchism, social and political elitism and tyranny. Republicans hold that a political system must be founded upon the rule of law, the rights of the individual, and the sovereignty of the nation‘s people. It is also closely connected to the concept of civic virtue, the responsibility citizens owe to their republic, and opposition to corruption and the use of public power to benefit a socio-political elite.

It’s this opposition to socio-political elitism which most Unionist’s have difficulty with, as unionism is inherently ideologically right-wing and elitist, and working class Protestant’s have traditionally been denied left-wing Socialist political representation by political unionist parties, which has been to their disadvantage.

It’s time to sanitise and reclaim authentic Irish republicanism, and for the benefit of all of those who aspire to live in an independent, democratic, non-monarchist republic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republicanism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_republicanism
 


between the bridges

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 21, 2011
Messages
45,762
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...
 

Nipper

Well-known member
Joined
May 19, 2009
Messages
2,550
If it was to become popular , FF would start calling themselves the Republican Party again
 

Itsalaugh

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 1, 2013
Messages
3,346
If you say you’re an Irish Republican most people automatically assume that:

a) You’re a Catholic
b) You vote for Sinn Fein
c) You supported the PIRA campaign

In fact, in Ireland the term “Republicanism” has become so contaminated by and associated with the PIRA that many Irish Nationalists who opposed that campaign are reluctant to describe themselves as Republicans.

Republicanism is an ideology of citizenship of a state where the people hold popular sovereignty, and whose head of state is a democratically elected representative chosen by the people for the people. As opposed to a monarchy, where the head of state is a hereditary monarch born into the post as of birthright. A republican is therefore someone who lives in a republic and whose allegiance is to that republic, or someone whose political aspiration is to create and live in a non-monarchist republic.

The first Republican revolutionary organisation in Ireland was the Society of United Irishmen, whose leadership was mostly composed of Presbyterians, and whose leader Wolfe Tone, was an Anglican Protestant who promoted an independent Ireland where Protestant, Catholic and Dissenter could live in peace and harmony as Irishmen and as equals. After the failed rebellion of 1798 and the consequent 1801 act of union, most Irish Protestants embraced unionism, and Republicanism became the almost exclusive preserve of Irish Catholics.

To sanitise contemporary Irish Republicanism and reclaim it for everyone regardless of religious affiliation with a desire to live in a monarchy free republic, efforts must be undertaken to once again popularise republican values, principles and objectives, and emphasise that to be an Irish republican there is no prerequisite to be:

a) A Catholic
b) A Sinn Fein voter
c) Someone who supported the PIRA campaign

I’m an Irishman and a Republican and I am none of the above. In fact, I’m an Ulster Protestant (Agnostic actually, as I believe all religion is superstitious nonsense used to control people, but Presbyterianism is the brand of superstitious nonsense I was born into but refuse to practice), I don’t vote for Sinn Fein, and was opposed to what the PIRA perpetrated in the name of Irish freedom.

To reclaim Irish Republicanism, those who aspire to live in a liberal, democratic, pluralist society where the head of state is not a privileged hereditary monarch, and where secularism takes precedence over organised religion, must undertake strenuous efforts to re-communicate the true definition of republicanism.

Republicanism is a political ideology in opposition to monarchism, social and political elitism and tyranny. Republicans hold that a political system must be founded upon the rule of law, the rights of the individual, and the sovereignty of the nation‘s people. It is also closely connected to the concept of civic virtue, the responsibility citizens owe to their republic, and opposition to corruption and the use of public power to benefit a socio-political elite.

It’s this opposition to socio-political elitism which most Unionist’s have difficulty with, as unionism is inherently ideologically right-wing and elitist, and working class Protestant’s have traditionally been denied left-wing Socialist political representation by political unionist parties, which has been to their disadvantage.

It’s time to sanitise and reclaim authentic Irish republicanism, and for the benefit of all of those who aspire to live in an independent, democratic, non-monarchist republic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republicanism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_republicanism
I think about 20% of background NE Irish Protestants and 40%+ of those declaring as mixed/athiest background can be convinced to embrace a pluralistic UI. But SF and advocates for re-unification must build a broad coalition and those associated with physical force Republicanism must recognise that their appeal is limited to capture the sufficient level of support necessary from non-Catholics to assure success in a referendum.
 

Irish-Rationalist

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 2, 2016
Messages
3,337
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...
Another thought provoking contribution from P.ies leading Loyalist intellect.

I know unionists who are both Irish and republican.
Explain. And without the trite use of mindless insults.

I think about 20% of background NE Irish Protestants and 40%+ of those declaring as mixed/athiest background can be convinced to embrace a pluralistic UI. But SF and advocates for re-unification must build a broad coalition and those associated with physical force Republicanism must recognise that their appeal is limited to capture the sufficient level of support necessary from non-Catholics to assure success in a referendum.
I know SF are the only political party serious about Irish unity, but realistically, given their record, are SF ever going to appeal to moderate unionists and those of a Socialist orientation who are open to persuasion?
 

CastleRay

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 20, 2015
Messages
9,244
Explain. And without the trite use of mindless insults.
They are from Ireland and therefore Irish, they are republican as they'd like to see the end of monarchies and they are pro-Union as they wish Northern Ireland to remain In the UK. Therefore they are Irish republican unionists. Claiming or reclaiming broad groupings is pretty pointless but by all means carry on.

Btw, nice try to projecting your insults into me. If I wanted to insult you I would. I prefer to let you just highlight yourself.
 

vivabrigada

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 17, 2011
Messages
20,295
If you say you’re an Irish Republican most people automatically assume that:

a) You’re a Catholic
b) You vote for Sinn Fein
c) You supported the PIRA campaign

In fact, in Ireland the term “Republicanism” has become so contaminated by and associated with the PIRA that many Irish Nationalists who opposed that campaign are reluctant to describe themselves as Republicans.

Republicanism is an ideology of citizenship of a state where the people hold popular sovereignty, and whose head of state is a democratically elected representative chosen by the people for the people. As opposed to a monarchy, where the head of state is a hereditary monarch born into the post as of birthright. A republican is therefore someone who lives in a republic and whose allegiance is to that republic, or someone whose political aspiration is to create and live in a non-monarchist republic.

The first Republican revolutionary organisation in Ireland was the Society of United Irishmen, whose leadership was mostly composed of Presbyterians, and whose leader Wolfe Tone, was an Anglican Protestant who promoted an independent Ireland where Protestant, Catholic and Dissenter could live in peace and harmony as Irishmen and as equals. After the failed rebellion of 1798 and the consequent 1801 act of union, most Irish Protestants embraced unionism, and Republicanism became the almost exclusive preserve of Irish Catholics.

To sanitise contemporary Irish Republicanism and reclaim it for everyone regardless of religious affiliation with a desire to live in a monarchy free republic, efforts must be undertaken to once again popularise republican values, principles and objectives, and emphasise that to be an Irish republican there is no prerequisite to be:

a) A Catholic
b) A Sinn Fein voter
c) Someone who supported the PIRA campaign

I’m an Irishman and a Republican and I am none of the above. In fact, I’m an Ulster Protestant (Agnostic actually, as I believe all religion is superstitious nonsense used to control people, but Presbyterianism is the brand of superstitious nonsense I was born into but refuse to practice), I don’t vote for Sinn Fein, and was opposed to what the PIRA perpetrated in the name of Irish freedom.

To reclaim Irish Republicanism, those who aspire to live in a liberal, democratic, pluralist society where the head of state is not a privileged hereditary monarch, and where secularism takes precedence over organised religion, must undertake strenuous efforts to re-communicate the true definition of republicanism.

Republicanism is a political ideology in opposition to monarchism, social and political elitism and tyranny. Republicans hold that a political system must be founded upon the rule of law, the rights of the individual, and the sovereignty of the nation‘s people. It is also closely connected to the concept of civic virtue, the responsibility citizens owe to their republic, and opposition to corruption and the use of public power to benefit a socio-political elite.

It’s this opposition to socio-political elitism which most Unionist’s have difficulty with, as unionism is inherently ideologically right-wing and elitist, and working class Protestant’s have traditionally been denied left-wing Socialist political representation by political unionist parties, which has been to their disadvantage.

It’s time to sanitise and reclaim authentic Irish republicanism, and for the benefit of all of those who aspire to live in an independent, democratic, non-monarchist republic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republicanism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_republicanism
Irish Republicanism isn't the preserve of SF or the IRA. It's ironic though that it was latent in the North until Paisley and his crew started anti Catholic agitation.
 

Mickeymac

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 30, 2010
Messages
38,613
I know SF are the only political party serious about Irish unity, but realistically, given their record, are SF ever going to appeal to moderate unionists and those of a Socialist orientation who are open to persuasion?


SF may never appeal to unionists and the words and actions of these cave dwelling unionists seem determined to make themselves even more less appealing to the wider Nationalist/Catholic community............take their latest insult to that said community..............their non attendance at Bishop Daley's funeral, absolutely disgusting which embarrassed many members of the Protestant faith and clergy together with most decent folk of all other religions and cultures.
 

Therightroad

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 12, 2010
Messages
1,211
Loyalists south of the border more often that not were

(a) Protestant
(b) Voted Fine Gael
(c) Supported SAS & Loyalist death squads
 

Irish-Rationalist

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 2, 2016
Messages
3,337
They are from Ireland and therefore Irish, they are republican as they'd like to see the end of monarchies and they are pro-Union as they wish Northern Ireland to remain In the UK. Therefore they are Irish republican unionists. Claiming or reclaiming broad groupings is pretty pointless but by all means carry on.
So essentially you're talking about Irish people who live in the Republic of Ireland, whose political allegiance is to their republic, who'd like to rejoin in a union with Great Britain, but only if GB became a republic? I suppose "republican-unionist" makes sense, even if it sounds paradoxical on the surface.

Btw, nice try to projecting your insults into me. If I wanted to insult you I would. I prefer to let you just highlight yourself.
I asked a poster a simple question not so long ago: "Since when did middle class unionists care about what went on in working class Loyalist areas?", and instead of responding intelligently to what was a very simple question, you called me "a pr1ck", then ran away.

If you call me names I'll chase you and call you names back, as I'm a mature adult.

Irish Republicanism isn't the preserve of SF or the IRA. It's ironic though that it was latent in the North until Paisley and his crew started anti Catholic agitation.
It was also anti-republican. We have to be realistic, Unionist/Loyalist vitriol has traditionally been directed at both Catholicism and republicanism, as in Ireland political ideology (republicanism/unionism) and religion (Catholicism/Protestantism) have been perceived as two sides of the same coin. We need to break down the PUL/CNR dichotomy, and the more Protestants who embrace republicanism, and the more Catholics who embrace unionism, the more this ethnic tribalist dichotomy shall disintegrate.

SF may never appeal to unionists and the words and actions of these cave dwelling unionists seem determined to make themselves even more less appealing to the wider Nationalist/Catholic community............take their latest insult to that said community..............their non attendance at Bishop Daley's funeral, absolutely disgusting which embarrassed many members of the Protestant faith and clergy together with most decent folk of all other religions and cultures.
The peace and reconciliation process has produced a one way street. SF, to their credit, have made some jaw-dropping gestures of reconciliation, like laying wreaths in honour of British war dead at Belfast City Hall cenotaph, McGuinness meeting and shaking hands with the Queen, Adams meeting with Prince Charles, and of course McGuinnesses recent attendance at the Somme commemorations.

I welcome and applaud every conciliatory gesture made by SF towards the unionist community, and just wish unionism would reciprocate with similar gestures, as holding on to grudges and resentment is in no-ones interest. But the unionist community has been greatly injured by the PIRA campaign, Mickey, and it's going to take a few generations for wounds to heal and for time to dissipate the bitterness and resentment.

As regards Bishop Daley, a courageous man who put his own life in danger assisting the injured on Bloody Sunday, and his death is a sad loss to those of faith. Personally, I have no love for his church or time for his religion, as I view all religion as total nonsense, and the RCC as an inherently corrupt institution responsible for controlling and abusing Irish people.

.
 

cricket

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Joined
Nov 7, 2009
Messages
14,029
This place is gone to the dogs, the OP hasn't been called a west Brit yet. The rightroad came nearest.
 

CastleRay

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Joined
Mar 20, 2015
Messages
9,244
So essentially you're talking about Irish people who live in the Republic of Ireland, whose political allegiance is to their republic, who'd like to rejoin in a union with Great Britain, but only if GB became a republic? I suppose "republican-unionist" makes sense, even if it sounds paradoxical on the surface.
No they were born and still live in Northern Ireland.
 

runwiththewind

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
12,722
SF may never appeal to unionists and the words and actions of these cave dwelling unionists seem determined to make themselves even more less appealing to the wider Nationalist/Catholic community............take their latest insult to that said community..............their non attendance at Bishop Daley's funeral, absolutely disgusting which embarrassed many members of the Protestant faith and clergy together with most decent folk of all other religions and cultures.
Why do you think all Somme commemorations were held in Protestant churches? Mustn't embarrass OO politicians by putting them in an awkward position by holding one in a CC church. They couldn't attend.
 

Mickeymac

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Joined
Jun 30, 2010
Messages
38,613
Why do you think all Somme commemorations were held in Protestant churches? Mustn't embarrass OO politicians by putting them in an awkward position by holding one in a CC church. They couldn't attend.



Looks like their sectarian hatred and bigotry was being facilitated.
 

SideysGhost

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Joined
Nov 30, 2009
Messages
17,716
Yerra ya see the thing is that the whole "Republican == Catholic Shinner Provo" construct was always a fantasy invention of unionism and the British State, which was then eagerly adopted by the Cruiser/Harrisite headbins in the Dublin media.

So the OP is railing against something that was always a false and artificial propaganda construct in the first place. Which strikes me as being rather pointless. The people who believe it are people who want to believe it and no amount of mere pesky facts will convince them otherwise - Trump voters, basically.

The correct way to proceed is not to try and argue against the fantasy, as such people are impervious to rational argument. The correct way is to demonstrate through practical effective delivery of a functioning progressive secular meritocratic Republic. Make the gulf between the fantasy and reality so absurdly large that the people who insist on clinging to the fantasy are loudly ridiculed for the nutters they are.

And in that endeavour FF/FG/L have comprehensively failed.
 

SideysGhost

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Joined
Nov 30, 2009
Messages
17,716
But the unionist community has been greatly injured by the PIRA campaign, Mickey, and it's going to take a few generations for wounds to heal and for time to dissipate the bitterness and resentment.
The poor babies. Start a civil war to defend apartheid, then spend generations whining because the victims fought back? The bitterness and resentment isn't because of the PIRA campaign, it's because they lost their fascist statelet and aren't allowed to be supremacist bigoted fnckwits any more. Far more Catholic civilians than Protestant civilians were killed in the Troubles, far more wounded, far more interned and jailed, and lest we forget it was the nationalist community who spent a good 80-odd years living under a violent, bigoted, discriminatory regime. So spare me the anguished wailing for the suffering of the poor widdle innocent sectarian fascists.

Unionism has a long, long road to travel to face up to its past and move towards 21st century social and democratic norms.
 

statsman

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Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
56,265
If you say you’re an Irish Republican most people automatically assume that:

a) You’re a Catholic
b) You vote for Sinn Fein
c) You supported the PIRA campaign

In fact, in Ireland the term “Republicanism” has become so contaminated by and associated with the PIRA that many Irish Nationalists who opposed that campaign are reluctant to describe themselves as Republicans.

Republicanism is an ideology of citizenship of a state where the people hold popular sovereignty, and whose head of state is a democratically elected representative chosen by the people for the people. As opposed to a monarchy, where the head of state is a hereditary monarch born into the post as of birthright. A republican is therefore someone who lives in a republic and whose allegiance is to that republic, or someone whose political aspiration is to create and live in a non-monarchist republic.

The first Republican revolutionary organisation in Ireland was the Society of United Irishmen, whose leadership was mostly composed of Presbyterians, and whose leader Wolfe Tone, was an Anglican Protestant who promoted an independent Ireland where Protestant, Catholic and Dissenter could live in peace and harmony as Irishmen and as equals. After the failed rebellion of 1798 and the consequent 1801 act of union, most Irish Protestants embraced unionism, and Republicanism became the almost exclusive preserve of Irish Catholics.

To sanitise contemporary Irish Republicanism and reclaim it for everyone regardless of religious affiliation with a desire to live in a monarchy free republic, efforts must be undertaken to once again popularise republican values, principles and objectives, and emphasise that to be an Irish republican there is no prerequisite to be:

a) A Catholic
b) A Sinn Fein voter
c) Someone who supported the PIRA campaign

I’m an Irishman and a Republican and I am none of the above. In fact, I’m an Ulster Protestant (Agnostic actually, as I believe all religion is superstitious nonsense used to control people, but Presbyterianism is the brand of superstitious nonsense I was born into but refuse to practice), I don’t vote for Sinn Fein, and was opposed to what the PIRA perpetrated in the name of Irish freedom.

To reclaim Irish Republicanism, those who aspire to live in a liberal, democratic, pluralist society where the head of state is not a privileged hereditary monarch, and where secularism takes precedence over organised religion, must undertake strenuous efforts to re-communicate the true definition of republicanism.

Republicanism is a political ideology in opposition to monarchism, social and political elitism and tyranny. Republicans hold that a political system must be founded upon the rule of law, the rights of the individual, and the sovereignty of the nation‘s people. It is also closely connected to the concept of civic virtue, the responsibility citizens owe to their republic, and opposition to corruption and the use of public power to benefit a socio-political elite.

It’s this opposition to socio-political elitism which most Unionist’s have difficulty with, as unionism is inherently ideologically right-wing and elitist, and working class Protestant’s have traditionally been denied left-wing Socialist political representation by political unionist parties, which has been to their disadvantage.

It’s time to sanitise and reclaim authentic Irish republicanism, and for the benefit of all of those who aspire to live in an independent, democratic, non-monarchist republic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republicanism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_republicanism
http://www.politics.ie/forum/political-reform/249543-reforming-bunreacht-basis-proper-republic.html
 

death or glory

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 1, 2012
Messages
18,389
The poor babies. Start a civil war to defend apartheid, then spend generations whining because the victims fought back? The bitterness and resentment isn't because of the PIRA campaign, it's because they lost their fascist statelet and aren't allowed to be supremacist bigoted fnckwits any more. Far more Catholic civilians than Protestant civilians were killed in the Troubles, far more wounded, far more interned and jailed, and lest we forget it was the nationalist community who spent a good 80-odd years living under a violent, bigoted, discriminatory regime. So spare me the anguished wailing for the suffering of the poor widdle innocent sectarian fascists.

Unionism has a long, long road to travel to face up to its past and move towards 21st century social and democratic norms.
When will you Rebs learn that the RA terrorism campaign that was raging since the creation of our country was and is the man reason that a United Ireland will never happen.
The only thing that Republican terrorism delivered was Loyalist terrorism well apart from intimidation, violence, fear, resentment, fuel and drug smuggling.
The RA failed to deliver a united Ireland yet over in Scotland they had a referendum for independence without a single shot being fired in anger.
 

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