The Rome Declaration: will Ireland have any discussion or will the lame duck "leader" just smile for the cameras?

Congalltee

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The Rome Declaration: will Ireland have any discussion or will the lame duck "leader" just smile for the cameras?

https://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/prominent-mep-provides-insight-into-rome-declaration/

The 60th anniversary knees up on the 25th March, 2017, will probably get slant attention here except for a photo of Enda smiling with Merkel and Hollande.

It's non-binding but it does set the tone.

What will the EU evolve to:
Economic body v social and political entity.
Common defence, single asylum procedure, shared justice system.
Allusion to banking union and full monetary union.
Member states v commmission
Loss of English speaking common law country leaves Ireland, Malta and Cyprus as very small minority.
More Europe v subsidiarity.

This should be a good swan song for Enda and Hollande. But both will still be around for the 29th April Council meeting. It does neither country any favours. It leaves the EU vulnerable to the German/Italian axis for "ever closer union" and punish the Brits for their betrayal to encourage the others.

A few questions:
1. Will EU feature in FG leadership contest?
2. Should not the leader who will follow through on negotiations, be there from the beginning?
3. Post Brexit should Ireland not take its role in EU more seriously?
4. How will Ireland's tiny number of bureaucrats cope when they can no longer just agree with the Brits?
5. Has there been any additional recruitment of those with expertise?
 


Congalltee

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6) When was the last time Ireland threatened a veto or took a principled stance against the 27?

Obviously, the Poles are the new Brits as party poopers (and even voted against Tusk).

Poland warns it may not adopt EU's Rome declaration | Reuters
"The unity of the European Union, defense of a tight NATO cooperation, strengthening the role of national governments and the rules of the common market which cannot divide but unite - these are the four priorities which have to be included in the declaration," Szydlo also said.
 

Clanrickard

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If it means common defence policies then good.
 

Mad as Fish

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https://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/prominent-mep-provides-insight-into-rome-declaration/

The 60th anniversary knees up on the 25th March, 2017, will probably get slant attention here except for a photo of Enda smiling with Merkel and Hollande.

It's non-binding but it does set the tone.

What will the EU evolve to:
Economic body v social and political entity.
Common defence, single asylum procedure, shared justice system.
Allusion to banking union and full monetary union.
Member states v commmission
Loss of English speaking common law country leaves Ireland, Malta and Cyprus as very small minority.
More Europe v subsidiarity.

This should be a good swan song for Enda and Hollande. But both will still be around for the 29th April Council meeting. It does neither country any favours. It leaves the EU vulnerable to the German/Italian axis for "ever closer union" and punish the Brits for their betrayal to encourage the others.

A few questions:
1. Will EU feature in FG leadership contest?
2. Should not the leader who will follow through on negotiations, be there from the beginning?
3. Post Brexit should Ireland not take its role in EU more seriously?
4. How will Ireland's tiny number of bureaucrats cope when they can no longer just agree with the Brits?
5. Has there been any additional recruitment of those with expertise?
Good to see that others are waking up to to what may be happening here.

Nothing is clear as yet and I hardly expect any great declaration after the meeting but what does appear to be happening is that the hard core EU states are losing patience and want to press ahead on their own for full integration and others can keep up or not as they wish. This is what is meant by a multi speed EU and I have posted before on one scenario that could develop and that is the EU becomes a collection of smaller groups with their own interests and knives to grind, which is highly likely given the diversity of the countries currently within the organisation. I particularly noted that the Visegrad Four, led by Poland, are already organised and have defied the EU on immigrants, a story we hear very little about over on this side of the continent. Unfortunately there is no clear grouping for Ireland to join and with our close ties to the UK any attempt to snuggle up to the original six may not be as welcome as Enda might fondly imagine.

The EU that Britain voted to leave is unlikely to be the same as the EU it does actually leave and this is the start of it.
 

gleeful

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The EU that Britain voted to leave is unlikely to be the same as the EU it does actually leave and this is the start of it.
The UK was consistantly behind efforts to prevent a full democratic system at the EU level. Now they are gone, the EU will thankfully reform.
 

Mad as Fish

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The UK was consistantly behind efforts to prevent a full democratic system at the EU level. Now they are gone, the EU will thankfully reform.
That's the second funniest thing I've read this morning! When precisely did the EU show any interest in creating a fully democratic system that was was held up by the UK?
 

realistic1

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The UK was consistantly behind efforts to prevent a full democratic system at the EU level. Now they are gone, the EU will thankfully reform.
So you envisage that all Citizens of the EU will be able to elect an EU President?
 

farnaby

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what does appear to be happening is that the hard core EU states are losing patience and want to press ahead on their own for full integration and others can keep up or not as they wish. This is what is meant by a multi speed EU
‘Juncker’s real scenario’ is multi-speed Europe – EURACTIV.com

A Commission source said that Juncker had proposed five scenarios for Europe by 2025, because if it had produced only one, “everybody” would start “shooting at it”.But the real scenario hidden among the other four was Number 3. “This is the way we want to go,” the official said. He also said that scenario 1 (Carrying on) was the status quo, that scenario 2 (Nothing but the single market) was negative in terms of integration, and that 4 and 5 (Doing less more efficiently, and Doing much more together) were added “for the sake of having them”.
 

Mad as Fish

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So you envisage that all Citizens of the EU will be able to elect an EU President?
It's revisionism already in action. Now that Brexit is obliging the EU to change the story is being put about that they always wanted to change but the UK would never let them! To admit the truth is beyond the EU fanatics and once again demonstrates how dangerous they are.
 

Spanner Island

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Good to see that others are waking up to to what may be happening here.

Nothing is clear as yet and I hardly expect any great declaration after the meeting but what does appear to be happening is that the hard core EU states are losing patience and want to press ahead on their own for full integration and others can keep up or not as they wish. This is what is meant by a multi speed EU and I have posted before on one scenario that could develop and that is the EU becomes a collection of smaller groups with their own interests and knives to grind, which is highly likely given the diversity of the countries currently within the organisation. I particularly noted that the Visegrad Four, led by Poland, are already organised and have defied the EU on immigrants, a story we hear very little about over on this side of the continent. Unfortunately there is no clear grouping for Ireland to join and with our close ties to the UK any attempt to snuggle up to the original six may not be as welcome as Enda might fondly imagine.

The EU that Britain voted to leave is unlikely to be the same as the EU it does actually leave and this is the start of it.
Is it possible for €uro members to operate at different speeds though?

I have my doubts...

There is no easy way through this for Ireland imo... we have no natural allies... the UK would have been our main one...

The EU also seems fed up with our economic model...

Brexit threatens all sorts of issues for us too...

Trump is determined to bring jobs home with his administration openly claiming they intend to target/compete with Ireland in this regard...

It's hard to imagine a bigger mess for Ireland to be in currently...

I don't see us thriving on our own which seems to be what some want... i.e. leave the EU and fend for ourselves...
 

Mad as Fish

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Mad as Fish

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Is it possible for €uro members to operate at different speeds though?

I have my doubts...

There is no easy way through this for Ireland imo... we have no natural allies... the UK would have been our main one...

The EU also seems fed up with our economic model...

Brexit threatens all sorts of issues for us too...

Trump is determined to bring jobs home with his administration openly claiming they intend to target/compete with Ireland in this regard...

It's hard to imagine a bigger mess for Ireland to be in currently...

I don't see us thriving on our own which seems to be what some want... i.e. leave the EU and fend for ourselves...
I would agree entirely, this is a hugely difficult situation for Ireland and I see the multi speed model as leading to the breaking down of the old EU into a collection of smaller sub EU's clumps, none of which Ireland fits into naturally. We are isolated here and certainly cannot afford to cut ourselves off from the UK to the extent that some would wish.
 

Spanner Island

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The UK was consistantly behind efforts to prevent a full democratic system at the EU level. Now they are gone, the EU will thankfully reform.
I think it may be too late tbh.

There has been a distinct change in attitude towards the EU in many countries since 2008 that have traditionally been pro EU without questioning it...

There is now a shrug of the shoulders ambivalence about the prospect of the EU imploding with the assumption being that if it does it will re-emerge as a better more nimble thing...

It could be the best thing for the EU to collapse and rebuild despite the obvious upheaval this would cause in the short/medium term...

The same should have happened to the banking system in 2008... imo.

Europhiles need not take for granted that they're going to have any green light for their federal wet dream.
 

gleeful

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I think it may be too late tbh.

There has been a distinct change in attitude towards the EU in many countries since 2008 that have traditionally been pro EU without questioning it...

There is now a shrug of the shoulders ambivalence about the prospect of the EU imploding with the assumption being that if it does it will re-emerge as a better more nimble thing...

It could be the best thing for the EU to collapse and rebuild despite the obvious upheaval this would cause in the short/medium term...

The same should have happened to the banking system in 2008... imo.

Europhiles need not take for granted that they're going to have any green light for their federal wet dream.
There has also been a distinct change in the last 9 months our so. Pro-EU feeling is up across the board.
 

clearmurk

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Is it possible for €uro members to operate at different speeds though?

I have my doubts...

There is no easy way through this for Ireland imo... we have no natural allies... the UK would have been our main one...

The EU also seems fed up with our economic model...
Should the next closest ally not be France?

Lots in common on the agriculture front. Historical migration both ways.

But they don't like corporate money laundering.
 

Trainwreck

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The UK was consistantly behind efforts to prevent a full democratic system at the EU level. Now they are gone, the EU will thankfully reform.
The UK was mostly defending the - supposed - central plank of the EU; subsidiarity.


Subsidiarity was supposed to be the foundation principle of the EU. As a concept that the EU pursues, it is morphing into "leftovers".
 

gleeful

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The UK was mostly defending the - supposed - central plank of the EU; subsidiarity.


Subsidiarity was supposed to be the foundation principle of the EU. As a concept that the EU pursues, it is morphing into "leftovers".
Thats not true at all. The UK didn't want either democracy or subsidiarity - they wanted to take decisions at an EU level which were politically objectionable at home and then blame the EU for them.

Federalism would protect subsidiarity by enshrining it in treaty law, as it does in all federal republics.
 

Passer-by

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That's the second funniest thing I've read this morning! When precisely did the EU show any interest in creating a fully democratic system that was was held up by the UK?
The Convention on the drafting of the European Constitution is one prime example.

In that, the U.K. was THE primary opponent of any moves toward the President of the European Commission being either elected by the voters directly or by Members of the European Parliament (a parliamentary system). Likewise they were equally hostile to the idea that the European Commissioners would be elected by the European Parliament and drawn either directly from the ranks of MEPs or from outside panels that MEPs or member state governments favoured. The UK's position was always to keep it as "Inter-governmental" as possible.

If you remember it was the UK that was utterly hostile to the use of the "Spitzenkanditat" system used during the last European Parliamentary elections which saw the leading "Spitzenkanditat" from those elections being elected President of the European Commission (namely, J-C Juncker).

Ironically, during the Convention, Juncker, together with the other Benelux PMs, were the primary supporters of the Commission (and its President) being directly elected by (and from the ranks of) MEPs, yet based on the UK media, you'd be forgiven for believing that if he had ever heard of democracy, he opposed it tooth and nail.
 


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