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The Seanad referendum to come.


myksav

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May 13, 2008
Messages
23,546
The Government have promised a referendum on the Seanad in the autumn. The stated question is to be "Do you wish the Seanad abolished?" (wording likely different, same meaning)

What choice will you make? Abolish the Seanad or keep the Seanad?

Why?
 

ruserious

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Joined
Jan 3, 2011
Messages
29,599
Keep with the hope of reform because taking away the upper house will leave a monopoly of power in the executive which is not the way it is meant to be and look what could have happened in that scenario if the previous government had even more power.
*Shudders*
 

Prof Honeydew

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Sep 17, 2010
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5,222
Hard to understand the present Government's obsession with having a referendum on an issue that nobody other than a few Mount Street anoraks gives a flying fwk about when they're running a mile from asking the electorate about abortion.
 

GJG

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Aug 10, 2006
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3,111
Website
blog.hereshow.ie
Keep with the hope of reform because taking away the upper house will leave a monopoly of power in the executive which is not the way it is meant to be and look what could have happened in that scenario if the previous government had even more power.
*Shudders*
If a meaningful role for the Seanad existed, you'd think someone would have thought of what it was within the first 90 years of its existence.

I'm not sure what monopoly the Seanad denied the Dáil, but I don't think that anyone noticed it.
 
M

MrFunkyZombaloo

I'll be voting Yes to slash the excessive pensions of present/former politicians. I'll vote No on the question of bank bailouts. I'm sure to vote Yes when asked to completely remove the Whip and I'll definitely be voting No to Europe.
 
S

simeongrimes

If we vote no it will be taken as a mandate to leave the Seanad as is. The opponents of the referendum claim it is the Dail keeps the Seanad irrelevant so what makes them believe they will change after a referendum endorses the Seanad. It doesn't make any sense. Abolish it and then put the reforming energy into the Dail.
 

Kev408

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Feb 26, 2006
Messages
5,124
I would vote to reform it if members were there on a strictly voluntary basis with zero remuneration except for very tightly monitored expenses for those travelling from outside Dublin. Those living in Dublin can use public transport like the rest of us.

That way we'd know members were there genuinely for the good of others.
 

DuineEile

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Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Messages
14,939
The Government have promised a referendum on the Seanad in the autumn. The stated question is to be "Do you wish the Seanad abolished?" (wording likely different, same meaning)

What choice will you make? Abolish the Seanad or keep the Seanad?

Why?
The Seanad needs to be strengthened as a check on the Dáil, not abolished.

FG are too dangerous a party to be trusted with making changes to our constitutional protections.

D
 

DuineEile

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Aug 29, 2010
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14,939
If a meaningful role for the Seanad existed, you'd think someone would have thought of what it was within the first 90 years of its existence.

I'm not sure what monopoly the Seanad denied the Dáil, but I don't think that anyone noticed it.
That's because the Taoiseach's nominees give each government an automatic majority. Abolish the Taoiseach's nominees, and see how we get on.



D
 

Congalltee

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Nov 10, 2009
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6,211
I take the abolition referendum to be an intelligence test. Anyone who thinks that the Seanad's abolition is a good thing for democracy and accountability can be dismissed as a moron. We may have had Donie Cassidys model over Jefferson's in practice but the idea of a second chamber is a good check and balance over the highly whipped executive run Dail. Though to the plebs it's a hard sell given a few buzz phrases will go the trick "taking shop", "retirement home for failed politicians", "gold-plated pensions", and just ignore the huge number of amendments, contributions from committee, use of parliamentary privilege, the university independents, the quality of many appointed ones. Just extend the franchise from councillors and elite colleges and it's worth saving.
 

hammer

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Joined
Jul 6, 2009
Messages
58,514
Close the Seanad.

All the good senators :) can stand at GE 2016.

All those discarded can then taking a running jump !!!!
 
M

MrFunkyZombaloo

Right now I'd vote to keep the Seanad (and I'm about 65/35 on the question).
 

Kev408

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Feb 26, 2006
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5,124
Right now I'd vote to keep the Seanad (and I'm about 65/35 on the question).
Me too but only because the FF/FG (especially the FG half) duopoly scare the crap outta me.
 

hiding behind a poster

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Joined
Mar 8, 2005
Messages
48,281
I'll be voting Yes to slash the excessive pensions of present/former politicians. I'll vote No on the question of bank bailouts. I'm sure to vote Yes when asked to completely remove the Whip and I'll definitely be voting No to Europe.
You realise none of those are subjects for referenda?
 

hiding behind a poster

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2005
Messages
48,281
I would vote to reform it if members were there on a strictly voluntary basis with zero remuneration except for very tightly monitored expenses for those travelling from outside Dublin. Those living in Dublin can use public transport like the rest of us.

That way we'd know members were there genuinely for the good of others.
Or that the members who were there were already rich enough to be able to afford sitting around in the Seanad discussing stuff for free several days a week. I don't see how such a Seanad could be anything other than LESS representative of the population than the current one is.

Anyway I'll probably vote to abolish it, though the arguments during the campaign may be interesting.
 

hiding behind a poster

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Mar 8, 2005
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48,281
Can we keep the Seanad and scrap the Dail?
You should write to the Irish Times with that. They love publishing trite one-liners on their letters page.
 

Niall996

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Joined
Dec 5, 2011
Messages
12,142
I take the abolition referendum to be an intelligence test. Anyone who thinks that the Seanad's abolition is a good thing for democracy and accountability can be dismissed as a moron. We may have had Donie Cassidys model over Jefferson's in practice but the idea of a second chamber is a good check and balance over the highly whipped executive run Dail. Though to the plebs it's a hard sell given a few buzz phrases will go the trick "taking shop", "retirement home for failed politicians", "gold-plated pensions", and just ignore the huge number of amendments, contributions from committee, use of parliamentary privilege, the university independents, the quality of many appointed ones. Just extend the franchise from councillors and elite colleges and it's worth saving.
I don't see what degree of check or balance it provides to be frank. Either way you an abolishionist by the sounds of it. Either kill it off entirely or completely change it from what it is now bar the name.
 

hiding behind a poster

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Joined
Mar 8, 2005
Messages
48,281
That's because the Taoiseach's nominees give each government an automatic majority. Abolish the Taoiseach's nominees, and see how we get on.

D
Why? Why should a universally-elected chamber be held to account by a non-universally elected one?
 
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