The Senate

Badnarik_Eire

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A carbon copy of the Dail with the exception of the 6 university Senators, is there any reason to keep it?

Any reason for it to exist?
 


Badnarik_Eire

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Its panels are supposed to represent vocational and functional intrests.
But it represents the major party composition of the Dail and very very rarely sends things back to the Dail for review.
 

geraghd

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Oh its great. A talking shop where anyone can say pretty much anything they like and have time to do it.
Id hate to see it drastically reformed. However I think we should directly elect 26 of them, I for each county. 4 seats from the Dublin Universities and 4 from all other Universities.
Then 20 left to be elected on the panels, and the remaining 6 nominated by the taoiseach. Giving grnad total of 60 which i think is the number they have at the moment.

Also very in favour of stregthening its powers, not by much though, probably to veto a bill indefinitly once 60% majority or something, and the party whip to be ruled out in all votes. something like that might work.
 

GusherING

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Badnarik_Eire said:
A carbon copy of the Dail with the exception of the 6 university Senators, is there any reason to keep it?

Any reason for it to exist?
Usual ignorant statement of Seanad critics.
First, the Seanad is not a carbon copy of Dail Eireann. There are 60 members only, its elected completley differently to the Dail and it provides useful functions not much publicised.

Firstl of all, what do Senators and by extension, what does the Seanad do?
It provides a debating chamber, to raise aspects and suggestions about a bill before it that the Dail may have neglected. I think you get the picture with this.
While 99% of the time, the government will have a majority in the house, there is a possible exception to the rule as the 1994-97 rainbow gov. had to deal with a Seanad made up of FF members who were nominated by Reynolds. Thus, it could potentially be used as brakes on a government.
Thirdly, seeing that clientalism, being visible in the community etc. is of quite importance to the value the public places on their Dail deputies, the Senators, who don't have a public representation and image to uphold to the same degree as their dail counterparts, are more freely available to work on drafting bills, debating bills and committee work. This is clearly ignored by critics of the Seanad or because they're unaware of it altogether.
And finally, just because the Seanad isn't directly elected doesn't mean that its worthless. It is suppossed to be used to give a wide range of voices, under the vocational panel, ( a bit of corporate statism for you there), just because its under party lines doesn't make this party made inefficency a worthwhile case for abolition.
And besides, I work hard in my elitist uni, to get my seanad vote. Everyone else is just jealous. And if one is to reform the Seanad, with what do you replace it with?
 

Badnarik_Eire

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Directly electing it would make it even more like a second dail.

Abolish it, it contributes nothing.
 

geraghd

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NUI or U of D?
 

geraghd

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Badnarik_Eire

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When was the last time it vetod a bill, when was the last time it introduced one that was passed? When was the last time someone was elected to one of the panels who was not a member of a political party?
 

smiffy

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Why don't you ever bother your arse looking anything up, rather than just asking these daft questions?

You want a Bill that was introduced in the Seanad? Here. Go play with that. There may be more but that's the only one I can think of off the top of my head. But then, I don't tend to pay too much attention to where Bills are introduced and frankly, I couldn't be bothered looking stuff up for someone who's too lazy to do anything for himself.
 

geraghd

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Well 5 out of six Uni Senators are independent so that shows that that particular system is rather effective and given the calibre and contributions they make shows the usefullness of the seats.

Senator Shane Ross effectively vetoed a bill when he identified flaws in one some time back though wasnt too long ago.. cant remember what bill it was, think it was related to preventing opinion polling or something.

I think your points indicate how much need there is to reform the system and in what areas...
 

geraghd

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Why don't you ever bother your arse looking anything up, rather than just asking these daft questions?
LOL. yeah!
 

Badnarik_Eire

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geraghd said:
Well 5 out of six Uni Senators are independent so that shows that that particular system is rather effective and given the calibre and contributions they make shows the usefullness of the seats.

Senator Shane Ross effectively vetoed a bill when he identified flaws in one some time back though wasnt too long ago.. cant remember what bill it was, think it was related to preventing opinion polling or something.

I think your points indicate how much need there is to reform the system and in what areas...
You want to save a useless body because 5 out of SIXTY of them are not members of political parties?

Anyone can introduce a bill FG and Lab do it all the time its a matter of PASSING it.

It's a retirement home for extds and a nursery for aspiring ones.

Why should Two colleges get to elect people to the national assembly anyway?

Second houses have many reasons for being created among them:

1. To represent functional and vocational intrests, the senate does not do this.

2. To provide a second thought to laws, the senate always has a govt majority so can't do this, and the current leader of the senate has often said she opposes things then votes for them anyway!

3. To represent minorities, in the old days southern unionists, they aren't around anymore
 

Badnarik_Eire

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4. 1° The elected members of Seanad Éireann shall be elected as follows:—

i Three shall be elected by the National University of Ireland.

ii Three shall be elected by the University of Dublin.

iii Forty-three shall be elected from panels of candidates constituted as hereinafter provided.


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
 

Badnarik_Eire

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By two colleges: NUI, TCD.
 

Rocky

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UCD is a member of NUI.
 

Badnarik_Eire

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By two colleges: NUI, TCD

Does anyone actually know the reason why there are uni seats in the first place? It seems a bit elitist
 


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