The Skripal affair: an act of war, & a war crime


rainmaker

Administrator
Joined
Mar 26, 2012
Messages
21,721
I am keeping up alright , just cant understand how you brave people are allowing this "act of war " to go unpunished :rolleyes:
It was punished. Russia humiliatingly had the highest number of her diplomats expelled around the globe in its history.

If of course you're asking the exceptionally moronic, dunce like question ''yeah well how come the UK didn't like totally go to war with Russia then'' then it doesn't really warrant a serious answer.
 

stanley

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 20, 2007
Messages
9,181
I am keeping up alright , just cant understand how you brave people are allowing this "act of war " to go unpunished :rolleyes:

At the moment Jimmy Bond is busy elsewhere but has promised to get round to it asap, an invasion or all out war will depend on his report.
 

SPN

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 2, 2004
Messages
16,797
Craig Murray asks some interesting questions.

Pure: Ten Points I Just Can't Believe About the Official Skripal Narrative - Craig Murray

1
The sample provided to the OPCW had allegedly been swabbed from the Skripals’ door handle. It had been on that door handle for several days before it was allegedly discovered there. In that time it had been contacted allegedly by the hands of the Skripals and of DC Bailey, and the gloves of numerous investigators. It had of course been exposed to whatever film of dirt or dust was on the door handle. It had been exposed to whatever pollution was in the rain and whatever dust and pollen was blowing around. In these circumstances, it is incredible that the sample provided “had an almost complete absence of impurities”.

2
As the MSM never questions the official narrative, there has never been an official answer as to how the gel got from the doorknob to the roof. Remember that traces of the “novichok” were allegedly found in a hotel room in Poplar, which is still in use as a hotel room and did not have to be destroyed, and an entire bottle of it was allegedly found in Charlie Rowley’s house, which has not had to be destroyed. Novichok was found in Zizzi’s restaurant, which did not have to be destroyed.

3
The government is always trying to get good publicity for its armed forces, and you would think that the heroic role of its off-duty personnel in saving random poisoned Russian double agents they just happened to chance across, would have been proclaimed as a triumph for the British military. Yet it was kept secret for ten months. We were not told about the involvement of Colonel Alison McCourt until January of this year, when it came out by accident.

4
The Skripals were of very different ages, genders and weights. That an agent which took hours to act but then kicks in with immediate disabling effect, so they could not call for help, would affect two such entirely different metabolisms at precisely the same time, has never been satisfactorily explained. Dosage would have an effect and of course the doorknob method would give an uncontrolled dosage.

5
After the poisoning of Charlie Rowley and Dawn Sturgess, the Police cordoned off Charlie Rowley’s home and began a search for “Novichok”, in an attitude of extreme urgency because it was believed this poison was out amidst the public. They were specifically searching for a small phial of liquid. Yet it took 11 days of the search before they allegedly discovered the “novichok” in a perfume bottle sitting in plain sight on the kitchen counter – and only after they had discovered the clue of the perfume bottle package in the bin the day before, after ten days of search.

6
The British government had two immediate reactions to the Skripal incident. Within the first 48 hours, it blamed Russia, and it slapped a D(SMA) notice banning all media mention of Skripal’s MI6 handler, Pablo Miller. By yet another one of those extraordinary coincidences, Miller and Urban know each other well, having both been officers together in the Royal Tank Regiment, of the same rank and joining the Regiment the same year.

7
There was at least a four month gap between the police searching the Poplar hotel where Boshirov and Petrov were staying, allegedly discovering traces of novichok in the hotel room, and the police informing the hotel management, let alone the public, of the discovery. That is four months in which a cleaner might have fatally stumbled across more novichok in the hotel. Four months in which another guest in the same hotel might have had something lurking in their bag which they had picked up. Four months in which there might have been a container of novichok sitting in a hedge near the hotel. Yet for four months the police did not think any of this was urgent enough to tell anybody.

8
The idea that, before an extremely delicate murder operation involving handling a poison, a tiny accident with which would kill them, professionals would stay up all night and drink heavily and take drugs is a nonsense. Apart from the obvious effect on their own metabolisms, they were risking authorities being called because of the noise and a search being instituted because of the drugs.

9
There is undoubtedly a huge amount of CCTV video of the Skripals’ movements which has never been released. For example, the parents of one of the boys who Sergei was chatting with while feeding the ducks, was shown “clear” footage by the Police of the Skripals at the pond, yet this has never been released. This however is the moment at which the evidence puts Boshirov and Petrov at the closest to them. What does the concealed CCTV of the Skripals with the ducks show?

10
Only in the last couple of days have the police finally admitted there is a real problem with the fact that Charlie Rowley insists that the perfume bottle was fully sealed, and the cellophane difficult to remove, when he discovered it. Why the charity collection bin had not been emptied for three months has never been explained either. Rowley’s recollection is supported by the fact that the entire packaging was discovered by the police in his bin – why would Boshirov and Petrov have been carrying the cellophane around with them if they had opened the package? Why – and how – would they reseal it outdoors in Salisbury before dumping it?
 

middleground

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 30, 2014
Messages
721
Great summary of a long article which is also worth a read in full. No doubt there will be the usual reaction of ignoring all of the farcical narrative and asking why would two Russians have visited Salisbury on a short visit. Maybe Sergei was playing all sides for money and got squeezed for going too far. I have sympathy for the good people of Salisbury who had this farce visited on them including involvement by Porton Down. The joke was so serious that it would bring the British Government down if the truth ever got out.
 

rainmaker

Administrator
Joined
Mar 26, 2012
Messages
21,721
Great summary of a long article which is also worth a read in full. No doubt there will be the usual reaction of ignoring all of the farcical narrative and asking why would two Russians have visited Salisbury on a short visit. Maybe Sergei was playing all sides for money and got squeezed for going too far. I have sympathy for the good people of Salisbury who had this farce visited on them including involvement by Porton Down. The joke was so serious that it would bring the British Government down if the truth ever got out.
No it's not. It's Craig Murray's blog, and Murray has no inside knowledge.

He is a bitter former ambassador to the middle of nowhere who was recalled in disgrace and fired for his part in a scandal, and is now reduced to blogging increasingly bizarre conspiracy theories to a few credulous half wits.

Quite what inside knowledge of Russian security service activity you people imagine he has is anyone's guess.
 

SPN

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 2, 2004
Messages
16,797
No it's not. It's Craig Murray's blog, and Murray has no inside knowledge.

He is a bitter former ambassador to the middle of nowhere who was recalled in disgrace and fired for his part in a scandal, and is now reduced to blogging increasingly bizarre conspiracy theories to a few credulous half wits.

Quite what inside knowledge of Russian security service activity you people imagine he has is anyone's guess.

The questions he asks stand.

Yet again you resort to distraction and whataboutery.
 

rainmaker

Administrator
Joined
Mar 26, 2012
Messages
21,721
The questions he asks stand.

Yet again you resort to distraction and whataboutery.
No, he is simply rambling at this point, re parroting the same non points over and over, desperately trying to weave a conspiracy theory and peddle it to anyone credulous to swallow his nonsense.
 

SPN

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 2, 2004
Messages
16,797
No, he is simply rambling at this point, re parroting the same non points over and over, desperately trying to weave a conspiracy theory and peddle it to anyone credulous to swallow his nonsense.
Only in your conspiraloon addled mind.

The questions he asks are valid.

If you have the answers please share them.
 

rainmaker

Administrator
Joined
Mar 26, 2012
Messages
21,721
Only in your conspiraloon addled mind.

The questions he asks are valid.

If you have the answers please share them.
They are not. His entire conspiraloon nonsense has now been reduced to nothing more than asking that we give the two Russian assets the benefit of the doubt and they're presence was just a massive coincidence.

Also it should be pointed out he has absolutely know inside or specialist knowledge of the subjects he's scribbling about whatsoever, be that chemical weapons or Russian intelligence activities.

What we do know is that he is a bitter ex ambassador that disgraced himself and is now reduced to embarrassing himself with revenge blogging.
 

middleground

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 30, 2014
Messages
721
He is on the money when he suggests that there were three bad players: the British; the Russians; and the Skripals. So Sergei got too clever and who moved against him first, his adopted country. That's why they are silent because the truth cannot be revealed..
 

rainmaker

Administrator
Joined
Mar 26, 2012
Messages
21,721
He is on the money when he suggests that there were three bad players: the British; the Russians; and the Skripals. So Sergei got too clever and who moved against him first, his adopted country. That's why they are silent because the truth cannot be revealed..
Not on this. How are the British and the Skripals behaving badly in this case?

Have there been reports of known British or American personnel hanging around Edward Snowden's home and attempting to kill him, perhaps?
 

SPN

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 2, 2004
Messages
16,797
They are not.
They are.

Note how you try to avoid having to deal with them and continue your conspiraloon attempts at deflection.


His entire conspiraloon nonsense has now been reduced to nothing more than asking that we give the two Russian assets the benefit of the doubt and they're presence was just a massive coincidence.
The conspiraloon nonsense is all on your side of the debate.

The questions Murray raises are all very relevant

You can't answer them, so you call him names.


Also it should be pointed out he has absolutely know inside or specialist knowledge of the subjects he's scribbling about whatsoever, be that chemical weapons or Russian intelligence activities.
He is asking questions.

You are the one peddling a conspiracy theory, and your theory doesn't stand up to scrutiny.


What we do know is that he is a bitter ex ambassador that disgraced himself and is now reduced to embarrassing himself with revenge blogging.
Answer the questions.

Stop with the childish.
 

rainmaker

Administrator
Joined
Mar 26, 2012
Messages
21,721
The conspiraloon nonsense is all on your side of the debate.
No. My side of the debate won - with facts and evidence.

Evidence strong enough to convince respected international watchdogs and the international community to take the serious step of expelling an all time record number of Russian diplomats.

No one believes the coincidence idea that two Russian assets took a weekend break to Salisbury & just happened to be filmed on CCTV by the home of a Russian dissident found poisoned with a Russian weapon hours later.

And nothing that some washed up, bitter has been blogger scribbles is going to alter that.
 

SPN

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 2, 2004
Messages
16,797
No. My side of the debate won - with facts and evidence.
Can you answer the obvious questions that Murray asks?

The questions that scrawbe out big gaping holes in this here "facts and evidence"?


Evidence strong enough to convince respected international watchdogs and the international community to take the serious step of expelling an all time record number of Russian diplomats.
They weren't presented with evidence.

They were presented with a theory and a request for support.

They provided the support.

They are still waiting for the evidence.



No one believes the coincidence idea that two Russian assets took a weekend break to Salisbury
Me neither


& just happened to be filmed on CCTV by the home of a Russian dissident found poisoned with a Russian weapon hours later.
A half mile from said home, and they arrived three hours after he had left the home.

See Murray's questions upthread.



And nothing that some washed up, bitter has been blogger scribbles is going to alter that.
How about if you demolish his attempts at casting doubt on your conspiraloon theory by providing factual and evidence based answers to his questions?

Or you can stick with your tried and trusted conspiraloon strategy of namecalling and distraction.

That's worked really well for you so far.
 

rainmaker

Administrator
Joined
Mar 26, 2012
Messages
21,721
Can you answer the obvious questions that Murray asks?

The questions that scrawbe out big gaping holes in this here "facts and evidence"?




They weren't presented with evidence.

They were presented with a theory and a request for support.

They provided the support.

They are still waiting for the evidence.





Me neither




A half mile from said home, and they arrived three hours after he had left the home.

See Murray's questions upthread.





How about if you demolish his attempts at casting doubt on your conspiraloon theory by providing factual and evidence based answers to his questions?

Or you can stick with your tried and trusted conspiraloon strategy of namecalling and distraction.

That's worked really well for you so far.
They were presented with CCTV evidence of know Russian assets lurking near the Skripal home on both their trips to visit to a spire they never went to see. But that was just a coincidence, right?

The only conspiraloon here is you and your crank theories.
 

SPN

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 2, 2004
Messages
16,797
They were presented with CCTV evidence of know Russian assets lurking near the Skripal home on both their trips to visit to a spire they never went to see. But that was just a coincidence, right?
We were indeed.

They arrived in Salisbury a couple of hours after the Skripals left their house.



The only conspiraloon here is you and your crank theories.
You are the conpiraloon with crank theories.

I am asking obvious questions which highlight the gaping holes in your theories.

Do you have the answers to the questions?
 

rainmaker

Administrator
Joined
Mar 26, 2012
Messages
21,721
We were indeed.

They arrived in Salisbury a couple of hours after the Skripals left their house.
Yes, poor old Russian intel assets, they can't even go on a weekend break to an obscure English market town to see their favorite spire without getting blamed every time a nearby dissident gets poisoned with a Russian nerve agent. :rolleyes:

You are the conpiraloon with crank theories.
I am asking obvious questions which highlight the gaping holes in your theories.
No pal, I am giving you the internationally accepted, known facts. You on the other hand are regurgitating the uninformed ramblings of a lone blogger with a long history of eccentric crank claims.
 

SPN

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 2, 2004
Messages
16,797
Yes, poor old Russian intel assets, they can't even go on a weekend break to an obscure English market town to see their favorite spire without getting blamed every time a nearby dissident gets poisoned with a Russian nerve agent. :rolleyes:
How did they poison the Skripals (by putting Novichok on the doorhandle) whenever the Skripals had left the house a couple of hours before they arrived in town?



No pal, I am giving you the internationally accepted, known facts. You on the other hand are regurgitating the uninformed ramblings of a lone blogger with a long history of eccentric crank claims.
Murray asks pertinent questions.

Can you answer them?
 

middleground

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 30, 2014
Messages
721
They were presented with CCTV evidence of know Russian assets lurking near the Skripal home on both their trips to visit to a spire they never went to see. But that was just a coincidence, right?

The only conspiraloon here is you and your crank theories.
An equally obvious answer is that they were there to do business with the Skripals (espionage) and MI5 etc. moved to prevent it by disabling the Skripals and then blaming it on Putin. They got the Novichok like chemicals from Porton Down.
 

IvoShandor

Well-known member
Joined
May 18, 2009
Messages
7,296
Twitter
yes
The Russians are derided for offering countless different explanations (as would be expected from a country that has been framed). You can't have it both ways.
Eh? Usually (see any one of a number of recent murder trials ) the offering of a number of a wildly different , often contradictory, explanations is a sure sign of guilt. You'd expect the wrongly accused to offer one correct and plausible explanation for their actions...not half a dozen that change by the day. As it is, the Russian agent's story-the supposed fans of Salisbury Cathedral mar dhea that never actually made it to the cathedral-is about as credible as a burglar that claims that he's an interior decorator surveyor measuring the wardrobe.

"framing" people can involve duping them into visiting places where they will be incriminated.
Ah, I see. They won a free holiday to sunny England, with train tickets to Salisbury....and firstly, thought there was nothing odd about it (Even I would and I'm not a secret agent!) and secondly, they neglect to mention this pertinent fact. Pull the other one!
 
Last edited:
Top