The Socialist Party are now an alternative - Questions regarding their manifesto

R

RepublicanSocialist1798

:cry:

What about the Democratic Left crowd around Rabitt and De Rossa?
They merged into the party in 1999. Eamon Gilmore was a member of DL.

makingwaves what about Michael D Higgins or Emmet Stagg who supported ye while you were practicing entryism in the Labour Party?
 


making waves

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The difficulty here is that you can give people "a responsibility to contribute to society" and many will step up to the mark. However a proportion, and we can argue how large or small this proportion may be, will want to contribute as little as possible of their skills/labour. How would a socialist system handle the working class people who do not want to contribute to your vision ?
With capitalism there are two types of people who do not want to contribute to society - the capitalist class who are solely focussed on contributing to the own bottom line and those that have been completely alienated from society because of unemployment, povery, lack of education etc.

Working class people have no vested interest in proping up the capitalist system and the vast majority do what they have to do to have a half decent life and little more.

A socialist society creates a different environment - there would be no capitalist class who will be in a position to manipulate society to line their own pocket, alienation will be dramatically reduced and eliminated over time and working class people will actually have a vested interest in the advancement of society through their control over economic planning, active democratic participation and solidarity and cooperation.

Yes there could well be a small number of people who might try it on - the difference from the current situation is that while now working class people have no vested interest doing anything to alter the situation, under socialism they would and as a result would not tolerate anyone trying to sponge off society (most particularly the remenants of the capitalist class) and would take measures to ensure it wouldn't happen. If communities have control over the production and distribution of resources then they are not going to tolerate any individual who is not willing to contribute as best they can.



How in practical terms do the SP propose to do this,
By physically taking control of resources away from them.

and how do they propose to deal with the inevitable resistance of the capital class,
By whatever means are necessary

and how far are the SP prepared to go ?
It is not a matter of how far the Socialist Party are willing to go - it is a question of how far working class people will go to preserve a new society. Socialism is not possible without the active support of the vast majority of society and this majority will be the key to maintaining that society. the working class is the most powerful source within society. When it acts as a class there is no force in society capable of confronting it and no force capable of resisting what it wants to achieve.
 

Skyrocket

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Only a tiny minority of the electorate actually read political party manifesto's, they get the general sense of it from the media which is overwhelmingly of the capitalist outlook. Consequently, the SP can expect to remain a fringe party.
 

Goban Saor

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They have accepted the €15billion in cuts with 3% deficit by 2014 figure demanded by the ECB, IMF and Irish establishment.

They have indicated they support paycuts and job losses and they have fully backed subsidising the rich through not increasing corpo tax.

You can't get anymore bloody right-wing.
What would be alternative? Borrowing more 2 years ago and having the IMF coming in quicker?

It's a sentiment worth fighting for, I agree, but you have to admit even in sweden there will always be a minority of people who do not care for society; only for themselves. How can you deal with these people?
We have higher social spending than Sweden.

Nope - they mostly have a right-wing and a further right-wing and that is the case in the LP.
LOL! Yes in the Northern Ireland there is only North Northern Ireland and North North Northern Ireland.

Ye socialists sound like children fighting over an imaginary play thing.

Only a tiny minority of the electorate actually read political party manifesto's, they get the general sense of it from the media which is overwhelmingly of the capitalist outlook. Consequently, the SP can expect to remain a fringe party.
Irish people wont vote for ideology.
 

making waves

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What would be alternative? Borrowing more 2 years ago and having the IMF coming in quicker?
I have outlined on several previous occasions how up to €8billion could be raised without a single cut to jobs, wages, services and welfare.
 

Luigi Vampa

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By physically taking control of resources away from them.
How would they be compensated for the loss of their property/assets ?

What would be the cut off point before the social state takes their property/assets

e.g. would it be people with assets over 1, 5 or 10 million ?
 

Crannog

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If social welfare payments are linked to average earnings why work. If you dont work there will be no taxes being paid so where does the money come from to pay the social welfare.

As for the immigrants, if they come here to work i have no problem if they come here to scrounge of our welfare system well they can f off back to africa. But by what ive read it would be spot the whiteman under the SP. Would have considered them for a vote but after reading that load of ************************e never
 

making waves

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How would they be compensated for the loss of their property/assets ?
Compensation would be provided for assets taken into public ownership on the basis of proven need.

What would be the cut off point before the social state takes their property/assets
The assets needed to be taken into public ownership would not be determined by value but would be based on their necessity for the implementation of a democratic economic plan.
 

making waves

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If social welfare payments are linked to average earnings why work. If you dont work there will be no taxes being paid so where does the money come from to pay the social welfare.
There is a difference between being linked (proportionately) to average earnings - and being 'the same as'.

As for the immigrants, if they come here to work i have no problem if they come here to scrounge of our welfare system well they can f off back to africa. But by what ive read it would be spot the whiteman under the SP. Would have considered them for a vote but after reading that load of ************************e never
Unfortunately there is an overtly racist tone to this comment - based pretty much on prevailing urban myths.

Three points-
1. The cooments are pretty much the same we heard for decades by right-wing British politicians about Irish immigrants in Britain.
2. The vast majority of black people living on Ireland are here working on work permits and not 'sponging' off welfare.
3. Most of the rest are asylum seekers who are not entitled to welfare.
 

Berliner

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If social welfare payments are linked to average earnings why work. If you dont work there will be no taxes being paid so where does the money come from to pay the social welfare.
Maybe that glorious government of yours should have developed an irish economy throughout the boom years instead of relying on foreign companies creating jobs. People who can't get jobs should get social welfare payments so that they can live in dignity.

As for the immigrants, if they come here to work i have no problem if they come here to scrounge of our welfare system well they can f off back to africa.
Surely no irish person ever scrounged on the british, american or australian welfare system.:roll:
 


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