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The Stanford University Rape Case

O

Oscurito

Aside from the Hillary vs Donald show, the USA has this week been transfixed by a rape case at Stanford University. Brock Turner, a student and champion swimmer at the university has received a six-month jail sentence after he was convicted of raping an unconscious woman behind a skip at a party in January 2015. The story received international interest after BuzzFeed published an incredibly articulate and dignified victim impact statement written by the woman that Turner had sexually assaulted, and which she read aloud to him in court.


Brock Turner. convicted of raping a woman at Stanford University

People can read what the young woman had to say here. However, there were other aspects of the case that got a lot of attention too. Turner's father submitted a letter to the court about the effects the case had had on his son. His father felt that the six month sentence was far too harsh and complained that his son's life was ruined for what was "20 minutes of action". He actually used that phrase.

Much attention has also been focused on the judge, Aaron Persky, who handed down the sentence. He has attended Stanford University. It had been suggested that Turner's father had attended the university too and that they are "fraternity brothers" but this is apparently untrue.

The New York Daily News has pointed to another case that was remarkably similar. Described here, it involves a rape by a college athlete on campus of an unconscious young woman. In this instance, the rapist was sentenced to between 15 and 25 years in prison. The other difference is that he's not a blonde, blue-eyed, Caucasian: he's African-American.

Meanwhile, Brock Turner will - assuming good behaviour - be released in late August or early September.
 


O

Oscurito

I see that earlier this morning, someone started a discussion on this in another thread - one that deals more generally on the issue of rape.

Mods, feel free to move this into the other thread if that is deemed to be appropriate.
 

ger12

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I feel some sympathy for the lad. He raped that girl, like lots of young lads in Ireland will do outside the back of the nightclubs with young girls too drunk to consent to anything.

You see, he wasn't taught that it's rape, in fact, there's a bucket load of fellas on this site you don't see it as a big deal. What did the lads dad say, twenty minutes of action ....

And the race element, the US justice system is pretty disgusting when you look at the difference in how colour influences sentences.
 

Cato

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I feel no sympathy for him or and other man engaging in rape. He should have received 15-25 just like the other lad, and indeed any other rapist.

Sad to say though, even with the ridiculously short sentence, he will still serve more time than most rapists, the majority of whom get away with it.
 
O

Oscurito

I feel some sympathy for the lad. He raped that girl, like lots of young lads in Ireland will do outside the back of the nightclubs with young girls too drunk to consent to anything.

You see, he wasn't taught that it's rape, in fact, there's a bucket load of fellas on this site you don't see it as a big deal. What did the lads dad say, twenty minutes of action ....

And the race element, the US justice system is pretty disgusting when you look at the difference in how colour influences sentences.
Do lots of young lads rape girls at the back of night-clubs here?

Not knowing something is wrong is no excuse for such a serious crime. I think you should read a little further into the detail. He forced her to go through the ordeal of a trial and concocted a whole series of ridiculous excuses to explain his behaviour.
 

A REASON

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Loads of men think having sex with unconscious and out of it women is completely fine, just look at the evans case. Some men even go out to get women drunk as it's the only way they'll get anyone to have sex with them.
 

Betson

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Loads of men think having sex with unconscious and out of it women is completely fine, just look at the evans case. Some men even go out to get women drunk as it's the only way they'll get anyone to have sex with them.
The Evans case is different , this case looks open and shut as there are two witness's to what happened , the only witness in the Evans backed up Evans side of things.

The Evans case goes to court again in October.
 

A REASON

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The Evans case is different , this case looks open and shut as there are two witness's to what happened , the only witness in the Evans backed up Evans side of things.

The Evans case goes to court again in October.
Both men had sex with an out of it woman, there's no difference. There's also people defending this rapist like they did with evans.
 

Dame_Enda

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Broadly speaking the upper classes in the US are probably held more accountable than the Irish upper classes in court. But still the better off are usually from the same class as the judiciary and as Jeffrey Epstein shows that goes a long way towards them getting leniency
 

Cato

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Hmm...

Interesting point on victim impact statements, and on judicial independence being eroded by mob-rule:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2016/06/the_stanford_rape_case_and_liberal_hypocrisy.html?wpisrc=burger_bar

Then there is the widely lauded victim impact statement Turner’s victim read during the sentencing hearing. I am glad she wrote this extraordinarily powerful letter and glad so many millions have read and been moved by it. But it had absolutely no place in the courtroom. Victim impact statements were once a liberal bête noire, and rightly so, because they seriously undermine the defendant’s due process rights. In a criminal sentencing hearing, the jury (or, in a bench trial, the judge) should consider only the facts of the case at hand in determining the defendant’s culpability. Victim impact statements introduce a massive amount of emotion into the proceedings, allowing the fact-finder to be swayed by emotional response rather than logical eflection. That, in turn, shifts the focus away from the defendant and toward the victim while injecting arbitrariness into the sentencing process. The defendant’s punishment may well hinge on how emotionally compelling the victim can make his or her statement.
 

Pabilito

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It’s a clearly a very serious rape aggravated by no expression of guilt or remorse.

The sentence is far too lenient.
 
O

Oscurito

Good Lord.....I thought "affluenza" was a joke - a word someone else had come up with to mock up that kind of argument. But the defence teams are now using it to excuse the behaviour of poor little rich (white) kids who are forced to grow up in a life of wealth and privilege and tragically whose influential parents can get them off at every turn.
 

GDPR

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It’s a clearly a very serious rape aggravated by no expression of guilt or remorse.

The sentence is far too lenient.

I agree if those are the facts however you will see feminist posters on here [claiming to want equality] yet having no problem with women getting easier sentences and lower rates of convictions for the same crimes. You will never see them complaining about false rape accusers and their laughably lenient sentences either which lead to actual rapes being deprived of resources. Instead they continue their hatchet job on ''all men'' . If the same standard was applied to women they'd be screaming 'not all women' .
 
O

Oscurito

Hmm...

Interesting point on victim impact statements, and on judicial independence being eroded by mob-rule:

The Stanford rape case and liberal hypocrisy.
I can think of one instance (the case of the death of a young boy in Cork about ten years ago) when the victim impact statement (VIS) could have been viewed as having a detrimental effect on proceedings.

However, by and large, I think they're a good idea. When even the law that's broken is described as being an "offence against the state", the victim can feel rather sidelined, little more than another witness who just happened to have a better view of things.

It isn't the state that gets mugged, murdered or raped. It's another human being and they (and their loves ones) do feel emotion. That emotion needs an outlet and the VIS provides it - at least to some extent.
 

Clanrickard

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Band

More hysteria from the mob on social media.
 

Clanrickard

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I can think of one instance (the case of the death of a young boy in Cork about ten years ago) when the victim impact statement (VIS) could have been viewed as having a detrimental effect on proceedings.

However, by and large, I think they're a good idea. When even the law that's broken is described as being an "offence against the state", the victim can feel rather sidelined, little more than another witness who just happened to have a better view of things.

It isn't the state that gets mugged, murdered or raped. It's another human being and they (and their loves ones) do feel emotion. That emotion needs an outlet and the VIS provides it - at least to some extent.
By and large they are a dreadful idea. They introduce emotion into what should be a logical and fact based process. Also it gives the edge to victims that are articulate and middle class.
 
O

Oscurito

I think the kindest thing that can be said about the woman who wrote that letter is that she went well beyond the remit of what she was supposed to do (provide a character reference for Turner) and sought to undermine the victim.

“I don’t think it’s fair to base the fate of the next ten + years of his life on the decision of a girl who doesn’t remember anything but the amount she drank to press charges against him,” Ms Rasmussen, who plays drums in the band, wrote.

“But where do we draw the line and stop worrying about being politically correct every second of the day and see that rape on campus isn’t always because people are rapists.”
 


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