The Stanford University Rape Case

O

Oscurito

By and large they are a dreadful idea. They introduce emotion into what should be a logical and fact based process. Also it gives the edge to victims that are articulate and middle class.
I think the emotion is already there - even if it's not acknowledged. Your second point in an important one, though.
 


D

Deleted member 45466

I can think of one instance (the case of the death of a young boy in Cork about ten years ago) when the victim impact statement (VIS) could have been viewed as having a detrimental effect on proceedings.

However, by and large, I think they're a good idea. When even the law that's broken is described as being an "offence against the state", the victim can feel rather sidelined, little more than another witness who just happened to have a better view of things.

It isn't the state that gets mugged, murdered or raped. It's another human being and they (and their loves ones) do feel emotion. That emotion needs an outlet and the VIS provides it - at least to some extent.
That's very sweet, but the law should deal with facts, and not personal feelings.
 

Clanrickard

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I think the kindest thing that can be said about the woman who wrote that letter is that she went well beyond the remit of what she was supposed to do (provide a character reference for Turner) and sought to undermine the victim.
She stated fatcs. Also that is not a reason for a witch hunt against her and her band.
 

Cato

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That's very sweet, but the law should deal with facts, and not personal feelings.
Oscurito seems to be identifying the good effect of a victim impact statement to largely reside in its therapeutic effect, in that it aids the victim in giving voice to their emotional reaction to the crime, and perhaps thereby achieving some cathartic effect.

That's all well and good and I'd be in favour of it as long as it plays absolutely no part in the either the jury's or the judge's deliberations, either to the verdict or to the sentence. Perhaps, a good place for victim impact statements would be after the judge has determined the sentence (and notified the clerk of the court of same so as to prevent alteration), but before the court is notified as to the sentence.

Otherwise, it introduces and unnecessary emotional element to the court's proceedings and favours those victims who can generate more sympathy because of their education, rhetoric skills, or other personal qualities.
 
O

Oscurito

She stated fatcs. Also that is not a reason for a witch hunt against her and her band.
No, she didn't just state facts. She pretty much stated that the victim pressed charges despite being too drunk to know whether she'd consented or not. But the testimony of the Swedish guys who rescued the victim showed that she was in no position to consent.

The Swedish Stanford Students Who Rescued An Unconscious Sexual Assault Victim Speak Out

Should that band be suffering a boycott now? Maybe not but sin scéal eile.
 

stopdoingstuff

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I do not believe that judges should make determinations based on anything other than fact. If a person rapes two women, and one woman feels somewhat more violated than the other woman, we should not let this allow us to give the rapist a lesser sentence in respect of the woman who felt relatively less violated. The law should be rule based, and we should not vary those rules based on the ability of a victim to articulate pain or grief.

Now as for that little bastard who raped a passed out girl behind a skip, I hope the gets savagely violated in jail. And for his father- sure he was being a father and defending his son, but he, if I am not mistaken, did describe the rape as "20 minutes of action", and that might have something to do with why the little fvcker did it in the first place. It disgusts me.
 

Cato

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I do not believe that judges should make determinations based on anything other than fact. If a person rapes two women, and one woman feels somewhat more violated than the other woman, we should not let this allow us to give the rapist a lesser sentence in respect of the woman who felt relatively less violated. The law should be rule based, and we should not vary those rules based on the ability of a victim to articulate pain or grief.

Now as for that little bastard who raped a passed out girl behind a skip, I hope the gets savagely violated in jail. And for his father- sure he was being a father and defending his son, but he, if I am not mistaken, did describe the rape as "20 minutes of action", and that might have something to do with why the little fvcker did it in the first place. It disgusts me.
I see a lot of these kind of comments around rape cases, hoping that the rapists gets raped in prison. I have to say that I find an attitude that can on one hand condemn rape and on the other hand wish for it to happen to be somewhat odd, to say the least. While the contrapasso of Dante's Inferno has some appeal (just deserts &c.) it requires consenting to a level of barbarism that ought to be something we should have long outgrown.
 
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Cato

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I notice that purpledon has had a prudent rethink on his last post.
 

stopdoingstuff

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I see a lot of these kind of comments around rape cases, hoping that the rapists gets raped in prison. I have to say that I find an attitude that can on one hand condemn rape and on the other hand wish for it to happen is somewhat odd, to say the least. While the contrapasso of Dante's Inferno has some appeal (just deserts &c.) it requires consenting to a level of barbarism that ought to be something we should have long outgrown.
Yeah, fair enough. It is not a worthy thought. I am still angry about the whole thing though- the attitude behind it all and the sense of entitlement.
 

Emily Davison

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The Evans case is different , this case looks open and shut as there are two witness's to what happened , the only witness in the Evans backed up Evans side of things.

The Evans case goes to court again in October.
Here we go again with you Betson.

What witnesses backed up Evans, the two friends outside the window filming what was happing.

What would you be saying on here if in the Stanford case the two Swedish guys didn't come upon the rape? What do you think of Brock Turner's defense? What do you think of his dad's response. What do you think of Brock's friend defending him? What do you think of the sentence in comparison with the African American, or in comparision with the offense.
 

corporal punishment

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I feel some sympathy for the lad. He raped that girl, like lots of young lads in Ireland will do outside the back of the nightclubs with young girls too drunk to consent to anything.

You see, he wasn't taught that it's rape, in fact, there's a bucket load of fellas on this site you don't see it as a big deal. What did the lads dad say, twenty minutes of action ....

And the race element, the US justice system is pretty disgusting when you look at the difference in how colour influences sentences.
This post is an absolute disgrace. You should be ashamed of yourself.
 

Emily Davison

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Do lots of young lads rape girls at the back of night-clubs here?

Not knowing something is wrong is no excuse for such a serious crime. I think you should read a little further into the detail. He forced her to go through the ordeal of a trial and concocted a whole series of ridiculous excuses to explain his behaviour.
You should not only read the Evens thread but the Rape is Rape started by Irenaill.
 

corporal punishment

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Why should she be ashamed of herself?
If you think feeling sympathy for "the lad" after he dragged a drunk girl behind a skip and raped her is ok, then you might want to have a look at yourself too. Just because he grew up in an entitled environment where his parents, coaches and friends told him everyrhing he sees is his for the taking doesn't excuse his vile behaviour.
 
D

Deleted member 45466

If you think feeling sympathy for "the lad" after he dragged a drunk girl behind a skip and raped her is ok, then you might want to have a look at yourself too. Just because he grew up in an entitled environment where his parents, coaches and friends told him everyrhing he sees is his for the taking doesn't excuse his vile behaviour.
She was being sarcastic.

Her comment about Irish men is shameful. Imagine being falsely accused of rape, and Ger, AREASON etc. on the jury. There's a good chance you'd spend time in prison. Moreover there's a good chance you'd be raped whilst in prison.
 

Emily Davison

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She was being sarcastic.

Her comment about Irish men is shameful. Imagine being falsely accused of rape, and Ger, AREASON etc. on the jury. There's a good chance you'd spend time in prison. Moreover there's a good chance you'd be raped whilst in prison.
And here we go again with you too. Have you anything to say about the victim, about the rapist, or is it general whataboutery to divert attention elsewhere.
 

Emily Davison

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Emily Davison

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That case is so infuriating. The American justice system is utterly perverse.
Don't be under any illusions that the girls Ger13 is talking about getting raped will be reporting it. They know it's a waste of time and it's a double rape if you do.
 


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