The Torture Report: What can happen when a Democracy behaves like a Dictatorship

owedtojoy

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For weeks now, the right wing media have been pre-spinning this Senate Report as a mistake, an attack on patriotic Americans who did their duty, America does not torture, these were just "enhanced interrogation techniques" (where have we heard that before?) etc etc Even George W Bush was wheeled to extol the wisdom and persipacity of the CIA.


One important fact is emphasised: these methods of torture were NOT successful - no useful intelligence was gleaned from the bruised and broken men subjected to beatings, lack of sleep, and waterboarding. (RE: Katherine Bigelow and Zero Dark Thirty - torture did not help track down bin Laden).


It is also said that the CIA did not make their superiors aware of what was going on in the detention centres. Are we really supposed to believe that? There may of course be "plausible deniability", but Bush and Cheney are where the buck stops.

What would reaction be if an American citizen was "rectally fed" in a Chinese or North Korean prison?


I do believe that the US and its open society is still morally superior to countries like China and Russia, where activities like the above go on but never come to light. Would we ever see a report like this about Russian intelligence?

But will there be prosecutions for war crimes ... even to the top of the CIA? Sad to say, given the current spectrum of Washington politics, I doubt it.

Andrew Sullivan is live-blogging the report and the reactions: Darkness Visible: Live-Blogging The Torture Report « The Dish
 


Sync

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It's amazing how much of the discussion today has been "Our torture methods sucked and didn't work" and not so much "Torture's illegal and wrong and we shouldn't have done that".
 

Ren84

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The capture of Bin Laden was quite interesting. As the film shows (based off the testimonies and reports straight from the CIA) intelligence officers only started seeing results once they stopped the torture sessions and got down to actual intelligence work. ....you know, the sort of work police all over the world engage in. They don't grab some bloke off the street and start waterboarding him. They gather information, conduct interviews, do detective work! And the same principle applies for a guy who had 3,000 people murdered.
 

MovingStatues

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The capture of Bin Laden was quite interesting. As the film shows (based off the testimonies and reports straight from the CIA) intelligence officers only started seeing results once they stopped the torture sessions and got down to actual intelligence work. ....you know, the sort of work police all over the world engage in. They don't grab some bloke off the street and start waterboarding him. They gather information, conduct interviews, do detective work! And the same principle applies for a guy who had 3,000 people murdered.

You're using a Hollywood movie as the basis for your unsupported claims? Jesus.
 

P Ryan

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I have read about what they did in Nicaragua in the 80's and I wouldn't repeat it here. The sanitized version involved dismembering women infront of their families. There was worse.
This was done directly by US forces, or by their proxies?
 

Ren84

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Does anyone really think the torture has stopped?
Just because other countries do so doesn't give the US the right to the same. Torture is morally reprehensible and no civilised country should ever engage in such barbaric activities. America is better than that and should be an example all countries strive towards.

And yes, I'm well aware of our own dabbles with torture, from the Civil War right up to The Cruisers own gang of mercenaries in the Heavy Gang. It's a shame CCOB never got his day in the dock.
 

parentheses

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Who taught America how to torture?


The actual interrogators accused of encouraging U.S. troops to abuse Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib jail were working for at least one company with extensive military and commercial contacts with Israel. The head of an American company whose personnel are implicated in the Iraqi tortures, it now turns out, attended an “anti-terror” training camp in Israel and, earlier this year, was presented with an award by Shaul Mofaz, the right-wing Israeli defense minister.
WRMEA | Two Views: Has America Adopted Israel
 

P Ryan

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Just because other countries do so doesn't give the US the right to the same. Torture is morally reprehensible and no civilised country should ever engage in such barbaric activities. America is better than that and should be an example all countries strive towards.

And yes, I'm well aware of our own dabbles with torture, from the Civil War right up to The Cruisers own gang of mercenaries in the Heavy Gang. It's a shame CCOB never got his day in the dock.
I'm waiting any moment now for clanretard to drop in and condemn this american hating, Joo-bashing thread, or some incoherent ranting typical of him at least...... :)
 

He3

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Shannon Airport.

Taking the US at its word. For money.
 

NYCKY

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Just because other countries do so doesn't give the US the right to the same. Torture is morally reprehensible and no civilised country should ever engage in such barbaric activities. America is better than that and should be an example all countries strive towards.

And yes, I'm well aware of our own dabbles with torture, from the Civil War right up to The Cruisers own gang of mercenaries in the Heavy Gang. It's a shame CCOB never got his day in the dock.
Sorry Ren, I should have been clearer. Are we all convinced that the US is no longer engaged in such practices?

Officially of course they aren't.
 

Ren84

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This was done directly by US forces, or by their proxies?
The Contras were US sponsored for sure. But many of them were a law unto themselves. There was often no stopping many of those crazy bastards on their coke fuelled murder sprees. Most shameful is that these cretins were never brought to justice. Hopefully Ortega (the man who as President they tried to topple ...and is back in the Presidential palace in Managua) will rectify this.
 

parentheses

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I have read about what they did in Nicaragua in the 80's and I wouldn't repeat it here. The sanitized version involved dismembering women infront of their families. There was worse.

And now the Islamic contras in Syria have become renowned for their barbarity. History repeating.
 


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