The Torture Report: What can happen when a Democracy behaves like a Dictatorship

Trainwreck

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Including having their children sodomized in front of them?

Anyone remember John Yoo

John Yoo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
One of the valid criticisms to lay on this Democrat Report is that it elevates and extrapolates individual extreme instances, that were outside policy and not approved to imply they were widespread and approved.

Case in point. One case.

Besides. Where exactly in the Democrat Report does it even establish such practice as either approved or common??? Quite the contrary:

http://www.intelligence.senate.gov/study2014/sscistudy1.pdf

DIRECTOR HAYDEN: "Many assertions [in the ICRC report] regarding physical or threatened abuse are egregious and are simply not true. On their face, they aren't even credible. Thi'eats of acts of sodomy, the aiTest and rape of family members, the intentional infection of HIV or any other diseases have never been and would never be authorized. There are no instances in which such threats or abuses took place."
 


owedtojoy

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Including having their children sodomized in front of them?

Anyone remember John Yoo

John Yoo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Remember? I hope no one fcking forgets him.

The torture report hit the streets today, and John Yoo is teaching in my university, with a named chair. I have a real problem that we are putting him in front of a classroom, especially a law classroom, no matter whether the course is international criminal law, constitutional law, or even civil procedure.

On doing bad things, being a bad person, making a living, and having a voice
 

owedtojoy

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“You can be for torture, but you can’t be for torture and then claim that it’s somehow inappropriately barbaric for ISIS to crucify the innocent.

This report clearly shows that the CIA basically broke people’s feet and made them stand on them for days, repeatedly drowned/revived people, froze people to death, anally raped them, threatened to kill women and children, and did everything they could to break them; the report also makes it clear that they did this past the point where even the CIA felt they had any useful information."


A reader of the Andrew Sullivan blog.

Quote For The Day II « The Dish
 

Ardillaun

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One of the valid criticisms to lay on this Democrat Report is that it elevates and extrapolates individual extreme instances, that were outside policy and not approved to imply they were widespread and approved.

Case in point. One case.

Besides. Where exactly in the Democrat Report does it even establish such practice as either approved or common??? Quite the contrary:

http://www.intelligence.senate.gov/study2014/sscistudy1.pdf
Hayden could know whether it was authorized or not but how can he say it never happened? No boss can say that with certainty.

America's aspirations are fading. Notions of human dignity and a right to privacy are being thrown in the bin.
 

freewillie

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Much as I'd love to see ISIS carpet bombed out of existence, my own view is that torture is not only ineffective, it's damaging to the society and the individuals who engage in it.
Just as well no one pays any attention to you
 

imokyrok

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Could I just point out for those who still think there is a significant difference between the US and other despotic regimes that the US actually imprisons a higher rate of it's citizens than any other country in the world and much of it for profit. You don't get much worse than imprisoning an entire 1% of your adult population.
 

Lonewolfe

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Could I just point out for those who still think there is a significant difference between the US and other despotic regimes that the US actually imprisons a higher rate of it's citizens than any other country in the world and much of it for profit. You don't get much worse than imprisoning an entire 1% of your adult population.
Not to mention executing many in State prisons and shooting many dead on the streets.
 

O'Sullivan Bere

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Could I just point out for those who still think there is a significant difference between the US and other despotic regimes that the US actually imprisons a higher rate of it's citizens than any other country in the world and much of it for profit. You don't get much worse than imprisoning an entire 1% of your adult population.
Privatising prisons is not only fiscally irresponsible but invites inferior handling of prisoners as well as public corruption. Take this globally infamous embarrassment:

Kids for cash scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The US also incarcerates way too many people for minor drug offences like mere possession or drink driving etc when alternative sentencing like first offender programmes, house arrest, rehab, etc, ought to be in order (some states or locals do that better than others). There's something to be saiid for the 'broken windows' theory of cleaning up street crimes but it's a tricky balance.

On the other hand, Ireland and many others have a notorious recodd of not treating serious crime seriously where even premeditated murderers get released on parole after a few years, people with dozens of assaults and home invasions and thefts get wrist slaps, serious charges get easy downgrades with medium level crimes getting petty infractions or ignored, etc. In short, our low crime rates are part contrived and part undue leniency.
 

owedtojoy

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Could I just point out for those who still think there is a significant difference between the US and other despotic regimes that the US actually imprisons a higher rate of it's citizens than any other country in the world and much of it for profit. You don't get much worse than imprisoning an entire 1% of your adult population.
The rate of incarceration in the US is dropping, maybe not as quickly as we would like, but it is dropping.

I agree the high rate is disgraceful, but my point is (again): thanks to brave American men and women, who can find space to operate without much fear in an open societies like the US, this situation is being addressed.

The latest data on imprisonment shows that the U.S. continues to outpace any other country in rate of incarceration. However, after a more than three decade run of rising incarceration, the past few years have witnessed a reversal of the trend ....

Mass Incarceration: The Long Unwind

The high incarceration rate in the US is due to racism, stupid drug laws (only enforced among minorities), mandatory sentencing, prosecutorial power to pressure innocent people to confess to lesser crimes at the promise of shorter sentences, and "market forces" urged by lobbyists who get the contracts for privately-run prisons.

However, that can be changed. No one in the US ever lost an election by promising "to lock up more bad guys", but at least they have elections, and eventually wiser heads get elected.
 

Mr Aphorisms

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crimesofbrits
The rate of incarceration in the US is dropping, maybe not as quickly as we would like, but it is dropping.

I agree the high rate is disgraceful, but my point is (again): thanks to brave American men and women, who can find space to operate without much fear in an open societies like the US, this situation is being addressed.

The latest data on imprisonment shows that the U.S. continues to outpace any other country in rate of incarceration. However, after a more than three decade run of rising incarceration, the past few years have witnessed a reversal of the trend ....

Mass Incarceration: The Long Unwind

The high incarceration rate in the US is due to racism, stupid drug laws (only enforced among minorities), mandatory sentencing, prosecutorial power to pressure innocent people to confess to lesser crimes at the promise of shorter sentences, and "market forces" urged by lobbyists who get the contracts for privately-run prisons.

However, that can be changed. No one in the US ever lost an election by promising "to lock up more bad guys", but at least they have elections, and eventually wiser heads get elected.
Hahahahha, you really are a pathetic scumbag, aren't you? I've said it before, your type is wholly dangerous. You'll defend anything America does.

Good that the gulag system in America is dropping, it'll be dropping faster as well, now that American cops are shooting and strangling blacks to death rather than locking them up to be raped or extorted.

And African Americans are getting it so much better as well, thanks to the land of the free, home of the brave, who, where anything can happen if you work hard enough, have elected a black President. Unthinkable. And look at the dividends it has paid: The Other American Dream: Social Mobility, Race and Opportunity | Brookings Institution
 

owedtojoy

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Hahahahha, you really are a pathetic scumbag, aren't you? I've said it before, your type is wholly dangerous. You'll defend anything America does.

Good that the gulag system in America is dropping, it'll be dropping faster as well, now that American cops are shooting and strangling blacks to death rather than locking them up to be raped or extorted.

And African Americans are getting it so much better as well, thanks to the land of the free, home of the brave, who, where anything can happen if you work hard enough, have elected a black President. Unthinkable. And look at the dividends it has paid: The Other American Dream: Social Mobility, Race and Opportunity | Brookings Institution
I will take you seriously, and not just as a bad joke, when he you exhibit some rational balance.

USA is not the best democracy in the world, but I would bet it is still better than your raves. North Korea, perhaps?
 

Paddyc

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One of the valid criticisms to lay on this Democrat Report is that it elevates and extrapolates individual extreme instances, that were outside policy and not approved to imply they were widespread and approved.

Case in point. One case.

Besides. Where exactly in the Democrat Report does it even establish such practice as either approved or common??? Quite the contrary:

http://www.intelligence.senate.gov/study2014/sscistudy1.pdf
Oh well, if the Director of the CIA say they didn't break the law, that's all right then. Nothing to see here :lol:
 

owedtojoy

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Paddyc

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Privatising prisons is not only fiscally irresponsible but invites inferior handling of prisoners as well as public corruption. Take this globally infamous embarrassment:

Kids for cash scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The US also incarcerates way too many people for minor drug offences like mere possession or drink driving etc when alternative sentencing like first offender programmes, house arrest, rehab, etc, ought to be in order (some states or locals do that better than others). There's something to be saiid for the 'broken windows' theory of cleaning up street crimes but it's a tricky balance.

On the other hand, Ireland and many others have a notorious recodd of not treating serious crime seriously where even premeditated murderers get released on parole after a few years, people with dozens of assaults and home invasions and thefts get wrist slaps, serious charges get easy downgrades with medium level crimes getting petty infractions or ignored, etc. In short, our low crime rates are part contrived and part undue leniency.
The problem with a privatized prison service is that someone's bottom line depends on incarceration. it is in that person's interest to lobby against alternatives to incarceration. There are towns in rural US that depend almost entirely on a prison staffed by locals and populated by black people from a far away city. Not going to end well.
 

sheehan

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Joined
Jun 21, 2010
Messages
886
The rate of incarceration in the US is dropping, maybe not as quickly as we would like, but it is dropping.

I agree the high rate is disgraceful, but my point is (again): thanks to brave American men and women, who can find space to operate without much fear in an open societies like the US, this situation is being addressed.

The latest data on imprisonment shows that the U.S. continues to outpace any other country in rate of incarceration. However, after a more than three decade run of rising incarceration, the past few years have witnessed a reversal of the trend ....

Mass Incarceration: The Long Unwind

The high incarceration rate in the US is due to racism, stupid drug laws (only enforced among minorities), mandatory sentencing, prosecutorial power to pressure innocent people to confess to lesser crimes at the promise of shorter sentences, and "market forces" urged by lobbyists who get the contracts for privately-run prisons.

However, that can be changed. No one in the US ever lost an election by promising "to lock up more bad guys", but at least they have elections, and eventually wiser heads get elected.
"The latest data on imprisonment shows that the U.S. continues to outpace any other country in rate of incarceration. However, after a more than three decade run of rising incarceration, the past few years have witnessed a reversal of the trend ...."

You are determined and are making a great effort in holding up the "holy badge" for the US under whatever circumstances, but the excuses, i.e. "however", "but", "at least", you are digging out for that purpose is not only self-congratulatory but also bordering amusement.
 


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