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The Unemployed


Twin Towers

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 14, 2005
Messages
5,885
I grew up in a time of high unemployment, for me it kept me in college but family and relatives suffered it, and the places they had to go to find employment consequently changed their lifepaths forever.

The term "unemployed" seems to have fallen into disuse amongst our political classes at least, many of whom entered politics on the back of doing something about it. Apparently we still have 160,000 claiming to be unemployed, two Croke Park fulls if you can picture it, in this time of jobs for all.

Now why are those of our representatives that entered politics in the 1980's so chary of the subject of unemployment today. Which of our political parties will be highlighting this issue in the forthcoming election?
 

ailish

Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2006
Messages
51
Website
www.ucc.ie
Twin Towers said:
I grew up in a time of high unemployment, for me it kept me in college but family and relatives suffered it, and the places they had to go to find employment consequently changed their lifepaths forever.

The term "unemployed" seems to have fallen into disuse amongst our political classes at least, many of whom entered politics on the back of doing something about it. Apparently we still have 160,000 claiming to be unemployed, two Croke Park fulls if you can picture it, in this time of jobs for all.

Now why are those of our representatives that entered politics in the 1980's so chary of the subject of unemployment today. Which of our political parties will be highlighting this issue in the forthcoming election?
Personally, I believe that anyone who is genuinely unemployed is entitled to something. The problem is the means testing system that Brennan introduced which actually deters people presently seeking unemployment assistance when they actually cannot find work.
 

zakalwe

Active member
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
171
i guess the view of politicians, and the public, is that there is really no structural unemployment anymore.

if you are made redundant there are plenty of other jobs out there if you look hard enough and are prepared to adapt.

also, most of the unemployment figures are made up of the frictionally unemployed (people between jobs, as i was earlier this year, not that i signd on or anything) and the long term unemployed (comprised of those who have no intention of looking for or getting a job but are signing on).

furthermore, the unemployed figures include those who are signing on yet working on building sites etc.

far more pressing are the issues of childcare (for the number of working mothers (who vote) far exceeds the number of unemployed (who are less likely)), crime, health and education. i.e. issues important to those who are interested in making a success of themselves.
 
Joined
Jun 24, 2005
Messages
84
Website
www.finfacts.com
The Live Register includes parttimers and some claiming disability.

The CSO estimates that the unemployment level is 96,000 - people "available" for work. Nevertheless, it's still a hefty number.

In Oct 1973 during the first year of the Cosgrave Admin, the month of another ME war that had severe economic consequences, unemployment fell to 63,000 and in 1977, Jack Lynch said that if unemployment was above 100,000 at the following election , FF wouldn't deserve to be relected.

I know the workforce was smaller etc. but our current unemployment rate of 4.2% compares with Denmark's 3.3%.
 

Pidge

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 5, 2004
Messages
427
The idea of "full employment" in an economic sense isn't that of 0% unemployment rate.

Generally, it's thought to be about three to six percent, but I'm sure that some people disagree. It's important to remember that when you look at these statistics, you probably aren't dealing with a static group, in that most people are only unemployed for a short time.
 

Deep Throat

Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2005
Messages
80
Lads, ye're forgetting one segment of society i.e. the unemployable.
This group consists of mostly able-bodied young men who suffer from a condidtion known as "sticky-matress". :evil:
During the eighties this particular group would've been quite vocal about how hard it was to get a day's work etc, however, since our Economy started to pick up and work became freely available, this group have started to come under pressure to justify their continued failure to get a job. But, this particular group now have a new mantra "we cant get work because all the Poles are coming here to take our jobs!". :x
(This group of unemployables are also known to speak highly of Fr Sean Healy of CORI) :oops:
The reality is that this particular group makes up the vast majority of unemployed. Those on the Liberal left will also talk about the need for more training etc in order to help these able-bodied individuals find work.

But I've only one question to ask; if thousands of able-bodied Eastern European Citizens, such as Poles and latvians, with little or no grasp of the English Language, can find work easily, then why cant this group of native Irish???
 

kerrynorth

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Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
1,525
Unemployment appears to be very lumpy around the country with some counties along the Atlantic seaboard with specifically Donegal and Kerry worse affected. The latest figures made for sober reading down here last week for my own county of Kerry. All the exchanges showed large increases year on year. The figure for Tralee is over 3000 and according to the Kerryman there are more unemployed in Tralee than in the entire county of Meath as well as a plethora of the smaller counties that they named.

There is nothing underpinning the economy of Tralee, all industry is nearly gone at this stage and we are not really a tourist town despite attractions such as the aquadome and the county museum. There is not much to detain a tourist in Tralee more than a few hours. It is the public service that is the only functioning are of employment in the town as the county town with the college, county council and county hospital the top 3 driverrs of the local economy and employment.

All of this is backed up from the results of the census which should almost uniquely in the country that the population of Tralee FELL in the last census with the population of the town core urban area falling 11%! The unemployment of Tralee and its hinterland is probably closer to 15% rather than little over 4% nationally.
 

wizzard

Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2005
Messages
27
Deep Throat said:
But I've only one question to ask; if thousands of able-bodied Eastern European Citizens, such as Poles and latvians, with little or no grasp of the English Language, can find work easily, then why cant this group of native Irish???
perhaps because IBEC et al actually prefer your and their beloved E.E.s. over them!
There's as least many 35+ unemployed around now as there was 5 years ago in my experience. There is also a lot less free full-time training courses from the likes of FAS than there was say a decade ago.
The fact is unemployment is yet another situation were most the money spent on dealing with in goes to making and filling new civil service desk jobs rather than actually going to training and providing proper facilities.
 

Twin Towers

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Joined
Oct 14, 2005
Messages
5,885
October '06, 155,389 unemployed, of which 29,600 were out of work for 15 months or more and thats greater than the population of County Leitrim. (INOU)
 
Joined
Feb 5, 2003
Messages
12
Problem is that many people are brought up without a desire to better themselves in life.

If, at school, people are told/feel/convince themselves that they can't learn or that there's no point in finishing school then there's little chance they'll attain any educational qualifications that will open up opportunities for them....

This isn't helped either by some children being spoilt to the point that they've no repsect for any figure of authority, and moreover to the point that it's impossible to explain that one needs to be active agent in order to better oneself.
 

MartinP

Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2004
Messages
91
In some areas it's not financially beneficial for some people to get a job. I'm not sure of how much money, for example, a married man with say three children would receive on social welfare payments every week. My guess would be it'd be somewhere in the region of 230 - 250 euro p/w? (Someone who knows the exact amounts payable can correct me on my estimation there).

I myself live in a predominantly rural area, where the closest city (and therefore greatest source of employment) is in the occupied counties where the minimum wage is currently £5.35stg p/h. Comparing what a person would get a week by doing nothing and what they would get by working a 40 hour week shows little difference in monetary terms.

Staying within the 26 counties exclusively, in areas where social welfare payments and a fairly standard wage have little difference, there's not much incentive for people to work an entire week for such a small amount more than what they'd get for signing on. I've witnessed this with my own family. A member of my family stayed in his job for no other reason than to keep himself occupied. The difference in pay at the end of the week from what he was previously getting as an unemployed person was somewhere in the region of 40 or 50 euro. So for people who want to work there's not much incentive, and for people who don't want to work there's absolutely no incentive to look for/get a job.

The "national" unemployment rate, usually cited at about 4.4% these days, tends to overlook the high unemployment in areas on the western fringe. At the time of the last European elections I remember hearing the figure of 17.5% for unemployment in Donegal - at the time that was higher than the national unemployment figure in Poland. I think there has been a failure on the Dublin administration's part to equally distribute the standard of living witnessed by some to all areas of the 26 counties. Some areas are said to have a shortage of labour - other areas definitely have a shortage of jobs.
 
Joined
Feb 5, 2003
Messages
12
MartinP said:
So for people who want to work there's not much incentive, and for people who don't want to work there's absolutely no incentive to look for/get a job.
Are the people who want to work but are put off because there's little incentive not short-sighted if they stay at home then? Presumably one can always work towards promotion/a better job with a better CV?
 

zakalwe

Active member
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
171
but if work is in dublin, cork or limerick then why stay in donegal?

hell, the poles travel from warsaw to dublin for work yet people in donegal can't be bothered to travel a fraction of the distance. speaks volumes about donegal people.

why should those who have travelled for work support those who couldn't be bothered (either travelling or working)?

in some other countries, in order to qualify for unemployment benefits you must prove that you are actively seeking employment. seems eminently reasonable to me.
 

Inishowen

Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2006
Messages
70
zakalwe said:
but if work is in dublin, cork or limerick then why stay in donegal?

hell, the poles travel from warsaw to dublin for work yet people in donegal can't be bothered to travel a fraction of the distance. speaks volumes about donegal people.

why should those who have travelled for work support those who couldn't be bothered (either travelling or working)?

in some other countries, in order to qualify for unemployment benefits you must prove that you are actively seeking employment. seems eminently reasonable to me.
This might well qualify for assinine post of the day....

Foreign workers coming to Ireland tend to be young, single, and with a qualification or trade. How can a middle-aged man or woman, who laboured or worked in a factory since their teens, with 2 or more kids in education just up sticks and move to the east coast???

These are human beings we are talking about, not statistics, not 'labour units', or 'factors of production'.
 

rockofcashel

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Joined
Jan 23, 2005
Messages
7,956
Website
www.sinnfein.ie
zakalwe said:
but if work is in dublin, cork or limerick then why stay in donegal?

hell, the poles travel from warsaw to dublin for work yet people in donegal can't be bothered to travel a fraction of the distance. speaks volumes about donegal people.

why should those who have travelled for work support those who couldn't be bothered (either travelling or working)?

in some other countries, in order to qualify for unemployment benefits you must prove that you are actively seeking employment. seems eminently reasonable to me.
In some other countries ?

Um.. that is the case in this one too Zawalke.

As Pidge said above, 0% unemployment is statistically impossible in any economy. One would be better if we were able to get the figures for the different levels of "structural" and "frictional" unemployment to give ourselves a better picture.
 

zakalwe

Active member
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
171
well, it is a monday and i'm grumpy and wrecked from the weekend!

roc, i agree (as in my earlier post) but to suggest that the 17% unemployment in donegal is a dublin conspiracy is nuts. see michaelp's post
failure on the Dublin administration's part to equally distribute the standard of living witnessed by some to all areas of the 26 counties
if there is no work in your area then it is incumbent upon you to go looking for work, doubley so if you are married with children.

sitting on your behind and complaining that work doesn't come to you is pathetic.

also inishowen, i'm not calling them units of production etc. i'm just saying that if there is 17% unemployment in your area, complaining while signing on will not help your situation. looking for work may. i'm not saying that there should be no help offered to them, only that they have to be flexible about the jobs that are offered and the location of the jobs.
 
Joined
May 12, 2004
Messages
6
Inishowen said:
This might well qualify for assinine post of the day....

Foreign workers coming to Ireland tend to be young, single, and with a qualification or trade. How can a middle-aged man or woman, who laboured or worked in a factory since their teens, with 2 or more kids in education just up sticks and move to the east coast???

These are human beings we are talking about, not statistics, not 'labour units', or 'factors of production'.
Good point
 

cyberianpan

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Joined
Jan 18, 2006
Messages
16,630
Website
www.google.com
Inishowen said:
zakalwe said:
but if work is in dublin, cork or limerick then why stay in donegal?

hell, the poles travel from warsaw to dublin for work yet people in donegal can't be bothered to travel a fraction of the distance. speaks volumes about donegal people.

why should those who have travelled for work support those who couldn't be bothered (either travelling or working)?

in some other countries, in order to qualify for unemployment benefits you must prove that you are actively seeking employment. seems eminently reasonable to me.
This might well qualify for assinine post of the day....

Foreign workers coming to Ireland tend to be young, single, and with a qualification or trade. How can a middle-aged man or woman, who laboured or worked in a factory since their teens, with 2 or more kids in education just up sticks and move to the east coast???

These are human beings we are talking about, not statistics, not 'labour units', or 'factors of production'.
They do it in the US a lot... people relocate '000s of miles. People not wanting to relocate just 90 miles is a cultural thing... to my mind laziness.

Also the point on econmics is valid... with all the social welfare out there it can be quite a burden to go work & have to pay for childcare. If the social welfare entitlements really are universal rights then ALL should be paid them. Simple really, would cut out fraud, people could work for low pay & not be afraid of losing benefits.

And lastly as for the persistently indigent.. well should they be allowed have children ? I think it is irresponsible & bad to bring a child into the world if you haven't the means to support her/him. Long term unemployed sit at home & sproggle like bunnies. This is the same as thieving from those of us who work. Also if the dim-witted lazy are freely allowed sproggle to infinity they will persist, in crueler times past they'dve persihed, now that evoloution is social we've a responsibility to enforce a little darwinian selection. Would propose that if a long term indigent sproggles that the child must be put up for adoption.

cYp
 

THR

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Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
1,010
Unemployment is never going to disappear completely. However, if the unemployment-rate is below 5%, then that country is very near so-called full employment.

It remains to be seen what will happen in the near future when the baby-boomer generation retires and there are far fewer younger people to take their jobs. Will there indeed be a labour-force shortage as has been predicted. Many people have refuted such speculations and have pointed out that talk of labour-shortage is little more than employers`propaganda to import cheap labour from overseas to push down wages.
 

Steepletone

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Nov 17, 2010
Messages
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I am bumping this up to remind everybody that 140k people were unemployed during the boom, I know a lad that left school at 15 in 2001 and has not worked a day since
 
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