The US invasion of...Britain

RasherHash

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:shock:

Yes, there was a plan by the US to invade Canada, as a part of a wider conflict with Britain during the 1930s, called War Plan Red.

[video=youtube;Py4CnYOVfto]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Py4CnYOVfto[/video]

The British empire was on the downslope and the US star was rising, so the idea that they might well come into conflict seemed quite likely.

I think this is an amazing idea when one takes into account the strong alliance that developed between the two countries during WW2 and since then.

Lessons from WW1 were taken on board and gas :shock: was glong to be employed by the US.

This is another account of War Plan Red given in lecture form by the author Kevin Lippert.

[video=youtube;BfVCcX9T_ss]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfVCcX9T_ss[/video]

Hitler thought there would be a conflict between the two and he wanted the British to defeat the US.

Among other questions, how would this conflict have changed history?
 


GDPR

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War plan Red was but one of many color coded war plans created by the United States in the early 20th century. The color coded war plans also included plans against Japan (Orange), Germany (Black), France (Gold), Mexico (Green), China (Yellow) and so on.

In the greater scheme of things the significance of most of those war plans is quite small. They belong to the time-honored tradition of engaging in contingency planning for any eventuality. The most relevant of these plans is Orange given its relevance for the Pacific campaign. Insofar as I know Black was mostly to do with World War I.

Eventually the United States would develop the so-called Rainbow plans of which 5 were made and which were more general in nature. Rainbow 1, for example, was a plan for a defensive war to protect much of the Western Hemisphere. The assumption was that the United States would be without allies.
 

Telstar 62

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Options have to be kept open!!!

As late as 1940, the US was recognizing Vichy France.:mad:
 

GDPR

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Options have to be kept open!!!

As late as 1940, the US was recognizing Vichy France.:mad:
Australia maintained full diplomatic relations with Vichy France until the end of WW2. Canada did so until Case Anton was implemented (10 November - 27 November 1942). The United States maintained full diplomatic relations with Vichy France until 8 November 1942 when Vichy France severed diplomatic relations following the Torch landings.

The Soviet Union maintained full diplomatic relations with Vichy France until 30 June 1941, after which it severed relations over Vichy's support for Barbarossa.
 

sgtharper

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:shock:

Yes, there was a plan by the US to invade Canada, as a part of a wider conflict with Britain during the 1930s, called War Plan Red.

[video=youtube;Py4CnYOVfto]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Py4CnYOVfto[/video]

The British empire was on the downslope and the US star was rising, so the idea that they might well come into conflict seemed quite likely.

I think this is an amazing idea when one takes into account the strong alliance that developed between the two countries during WW2 and since then.

Lessons from WW1 were taken on board and gas :shock: was glong to be employed by the US.

This is another account of War Plan Red given in lecture form by the author Kevin Lippert.

[video=youtube;BfVCcX9T_ss]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfVCcX9T_ss[/video]

Hitler thought there would be a conflict between the two and he wanted the British to defeat the US.

Among other questions, how would this conflict have changed history?
It's always funny when Rasher discovers something he thinks is new and interesting. He gets so excited, like a kitten with a ball of wool.
 

rainmaker

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It's always funny when Rasher discovers something he thinks is new and interesting. He gets so excited, like a kitten with a ball of wool.
Indeed, I have vague memories of other threads on the U.S. war plans.
 

RasherHash

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Irving has a few interesting things to say about US v UK competition. Of course he's fiercly British and claims the Brits invented the atom bomb, the radar and the computer (Enigma).

The UK wouldn't hand over Enigma to the US, so the US retaliated and said they wouldn't hand over the intercepted messages they picked up, the Brits in turn said they wouldn't hand over their solutions of the decoded mesages and they withheld the 48 most important messages before Pearl Harbour (from 49:00 on).

[video=youtube;9q-YlP1jp8M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q-YlP1jp8M#t=115.9294779[/video]
 

GDPR

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It's always funny when Rasher discovers something he thinks is new and interesting. He gets so excited, like a kitten with a ball of wool.
Isnt enthusiasm a wonderful thing? I agree its one of Rasher's wonderful qualities.

Anyway shortly after WWI the USA and the UK nearly came to blows; you always have to remember when people waffle on about the "Special Relationship" that the USA was founded by the scummiest elements of England who after the Restoration most people didnt want to cope with any longer in a rebellion over anger that London was restraining them from butchering the natives and Religious toleration for Catholics. The founding myth of the United States is drenched in hatred and slander against the English motherland so to be a "good" American Patriot you must have some detestation for England.
 

rainmaker

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The UK wouldn't hand over Enigma to the US, so the US retaliated and said they wouldn't hand over the intercepted messages they picked up, the Brits in turn said they wouldn't hand over their solutions of the decoded mesages and they withheld the 48 most important messages before Pearl Harbour (from 49:00 on).
Conspiraloon cr*p.
 

Telstar 62

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Australia maintained full diplomatic relations with Vichy France until the end of WW2. Canada did so until Case Anton was implemented (10 November - 27 November 1942). The United States maintained full diplomatic relations with Vichy France until 8 November 1942 when Vichy France severed diplomatic relations following the Torch landings.

The Soviet Union maintained full diplomatic relations with Vichy France until 30 June 1941, after which it severed relations over Vichy's support for Barbarossa.
Even as the three countries were at war with Germany....
 

RasherHash

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Conspiraloon cr*p.
Well, he read the messages and archives.

You can say what you like about Irving, he does the research and knows his stuff.
 

GDPR

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Well, in theory Vichy France was "officially neutral."

The Armistice Agreement between France and Germany ended hostilities without establishing peace and formally maintained neutrality between the Axis and Allies. It also mandated the complete demobilisation of the French Army, while Germany continued to hold French POWs, so Vichy hardly had the status of a co-belligerent.

Vichy broke off diplomatic relations with Britain after Mers-El-Kebir, when French ships were attacked and sunk by the British and with the US when Laval granted himself supreme executive power.

Nevertheless, it was acknowledged as the official govt of France by the US and Canada, among many other Allies, until the liberation of France. The UK continued to maintain unofficial contacts even after Mers-el-Kebir.

There were almost no areas where Vichy France touched on Australia's fortunes during WW2. When Australian soldiers did encounter French units in Syria, Vichy did not sever relations with Australia.
 

McTell

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No
The US war plan for WW2 was made in the 1930s by a staffer who had ironically trained in Germany.

No italy or north africa; land in france and go straight to Berlin by 1943.
 

sgtharper

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The US war plan for WW2 was made in the 1930s by a staffer who had ironically trained in Germany.

No italy or north africa; land in france and go straight to Berlin by 1943.
If he seriously thought of a landing in Europe in 1943 followed by a thrust into Germany then he clearly didn't learn much during his time in Germany before the war, about warfare or more particularly, the German Army.
 

Mickeymac

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If he seriously thought of a landing in Europe in 1943 followed by a thrust into Germany then he clearly didn't learn much during his time in Germany before the war, about warfare or more particularly, the German Army.


Adore these war stories Sarge, what time is your next one planned?
 

McTell

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No
If he seriously thought of a landing in Europe in 1943 followed by a thrust into Germany then he clearly didn't learn much during his time in Germany before the war, about warfare or more particularly, the German Army.

His idea was to carpet bomb all the way. Anyhow churchill wanted italy and north africa so it was shelved.
 

sgtharper

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His idea was to carpet bomb all the way.
Well, he was thinking outside the box at least
Anyhow churchill wanted italy and north africa so it was shelved.
Don't know when he wrote his appreciation but the British had been commmitted in N. Africa since 1940 and that wasn't going to change until it was over. Italy was a different matter of course, the jury is still out on that one.
 

GDPR

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The US war plan for WW2 was made in the 1930s by a staffer who had ironically trained in Germany.

No italy or north africa; land in france and go straight to Berlin by 1943.
I suppose it depends on what you conceptualize as the US war plan. The basis for the American strategy in World War 2 was laid out in the so-called Plan Dog Memo. This particular memo was written by admiral Stark, the Chief of Naval Operations. That memo was, largely though, the general outline for the war and how to prioritize US resources.

Plans for an early invasion of Europe were pressed for by the Joint Chiefs of Staff. This involved the drawing up of Operation Roundup. The troops being prepared for this operation were redirected to Torch when it became clear that the British wanted a landing in French North Africa first. This operation was drawn up by Eisenhower. An alternative was Operation Sledgehammer.
 


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