"The US is more unequal & unfair for its citizens than Europe": Nobel Economist

gleeful

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toughbutfair

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Theres a lot of profitable innovation in the US. Its driven by immigrants (many from the EU) and pension fund investment (some of it from the EU).
If the best Europeans are going to the USA to drive forward their business, surely that’s an indication that the USA is a better place to be.
 

raetsel

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For a start your calculations are wrong.
Your very first link shows that the IMF report GDP for the USA and the EU respectively as 19.3M and 17.1M respectively. Therefore the EU's GDP is 22.7% not 16%.
However GDP is not relevant here. You suggested that the USA was the most innovative country in the world to argue against the assertion that its population is better educated than Europe's.
My link, co-authored by Cornell University, shows that it is in 4th place. But in mosts lists of the best educated countries in the world you care to check it is well down the top 20 or even worse.
The USA of course does have some of the top universities in the world. But only the wealthy and the best educated elite go to them. The standard for the 40M impoverished brings the national level down.
 
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owedtojoy

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If the best Europeans are going to the USA to drive forward their business, surely that’s an indication that the USA is a better place to be.
I am afraid you are consistently economical with the truth, so your statement is bullshyte until you show otherwise.

The point is that rewards at the very top may attract some Europeans, but the bulk of the US citizens endure far more unfair and unequal economic conditions than Europeans e.g. Republican state and federal governments are consistently squeezing labour unions since Reagan's time, whereas the right to be in a union is still a valid right in Europe.

It is a fact that strong (not over-powerful) unions are good for maintaining parity of incomes for workers at the bottom.

Another phenomenon is ALEC - the American Legislative Exchange Council, a nonprofit organization of conservative state legislators and private sector representatives who draft and share model state-level legislation for distribution among state governments in the United States. Some companies like Google and Apple have withdrawn from ALEC. We might think someone like Denis O'Brien has too much influence, but imagine if his companies were actually drafting legislation on workers' rights in co-operation with a political party, for rubber-stamping by the Oireachteas?

These are just examples of political corporate power that would be almost unthinkable in any European democracy, except in maybe Poland or Hungary.
 

DexterGreen22

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America, best exemplified by its President is all front and much of its success is now illusory.

Western Europe is better educated, more stable, safer and healthier than the USA and probably most important of all, a far more equitable and tolerant society structure.
Seriously, who in blazes would live in gun crazed intolerant and angry Red State kips over pretty much any major West European city?

So prob no surprise you didn't get much kick back

Although' I'd have been short odds the usual crew would have been on with their anti EU lies "Muzzie hellhole ghettos, rape gangs..."


The muzzie rape gangs are very much real and not at all a lie.
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

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That is basically the platform that Trump ran on , while the Democrats tried to pass the US off as some Utopia during the campaign.

You are on the wrong side , you should join the movement to make America great again.
No, the platform was Make America White Again.
 

paulp

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What I find strange about the US is the that they don't view all citizens as assets from an economic point of view. You know, consider every child born an asset, who can be educated, get a good job and pay taxes.

The more liberal EU, I think, sees the long term value in investing in people. The safety net is a better economic proposition.
 

raetsel

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Why not ? You think we are entitled to be better off than them? Africa, India and China make up about half the world’s population
Because the USA's poverty is of Third World proportions.

UN shocked by level of poverty in Alabama: 'We haven't seen this in the first world' | The Independent
Mr Alston made his comments to AL.com while touring parts of Butler County and Lowndes County, where he met a man who had unreliable electricity and a septic tank that no longer worked.

People in the region frequently suffer from E. Coli and hookworm, a disease associated with extreme poverty and which was thought to have been eradicated in the US more than 100 years ago but which was recently found to persist in pockets of Lowndes County, located just 20 miles from the state capital, Montgomery, where many residents are too poor to afford a septic system and make their own sewer lines using PVC piping. The lines run from the people’s homes some 30ft above the ground before emptying into ditches or waste ground.
True, just pointing out that they aren’t in poverty. They are not worse off than Greeks, Portuguese, southern Italy, southern Spain
That is totally false, for the simple reason that there is far less inequality in Europe, certainly in Spain, Portugal, and Italy which have decent healthcare systems and far better social security provision than the USA. I cannot speak for Greece, as I haven't been there in over 30 years.
 

raetsel

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What I find strange about the US is the that they don't view all citizens as assets from an economic point of view. You know, consider every child born an asset, who can be educated, get a good job and pay taxes.

The more liberal EU, I think, sees the long term value in investing in people. The safety net is a better economic proposition.
Of course it is. It is common sense to work to improve the educational and economic standards of everyone in society rather than have over 10% of your population languishing in extreme poverty, making no contribution to the nation's wealth.
America is great place if you are smart and innovative and therefore attracts a lot of ambitious people from elsewhere in the world for that reason. But it is not a smart way to run a country.
 

raetsel

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America

Compared to 19 similar OECD countries, U.S. babies were three times more likely to die from extreme immaturity and 2.3 times more likely to experience sudden infant death syndrome between 2001 and 2010, the most recent years for which comparable data is available across all the countries. If the U.S. had kept pace with the OECD’s overall decline in infant mortality since 1960, that would have resulted in about 300,000 fewer infant deaths in America over the course of 50 years, the report found.
Premature delivery and low birthweight have been consistently associated with poverty, which affects over 20% of U.S. children, the second highest percent among 35 developed nations, according to a 2013 United Nations Children’s Fund report.
 

APettigrew92

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What I find strange about the US is the that they don't view all citizens as assets from an economic point of view. You know, consider every child born an asset, who can be educated, get a good job and pay taxes.

The more liberal EU, I think, sees the long term value in investing in people. The safety net is a better economic proposition.
I think the UK and Ireland have adopted that particular quirk of not appreciating their youth.

In France, Germany, Belgium and the Netherlands, it is almost impossible to not receive a decent education. If you don't wish to go on to higher education, then the Government pays you to go into a trade school. If you don't want to do that, then there is a vocational school that your employer will pay you to attend. If you do well in school, you receive a stipend to attend University and a maintenance grant depending on your means. The grant is dependent on your attendance and grades.

The focus is on getting the best out of the individual as possible and to increase their employability as much as possible. Meanwhile, the UK, Ireland and the USA are perfectly happy to jettison their most vulnerable as there "is always more waiting around the corner." Most students leave college already feeling betrayed at a system which seems to be predicated on some Lord of the Flies logic.

It is little wonder that the fortunes of all those countries have endured the recent economic crises whereas the UK and the USA have both flipped to the reactionary side of the coin and Ireland is led by an unelected dimwit whose crowning achievement is showing his socks to Canada's PM and waxing lyrical about Love Actually in London.
 

gleeful

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If the best Europeans are going to the USA to drive forward their business, surely that’s an indication that the USA is a better place to be.
There is certainly a lot of money washing around in Silicon Valley, and if you are white, male, and from an already wealthy family, then Silicon Valley is a good place to go. That is not true of the US generally.

Does anyone arrive to Silicon Valley poor and make it? I don't think so. Or in US industry generally? Not since Gail Evans in the 80's anyway.
 

NYCKY

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There is certainly a lot of money washing around in Silicon Valley, and if you are white, male, and from an already wealthy family, then Silicon Valley is a good place to go. That is not true of the US generally.

Does anyone arrive to Silicon Valley poor and make it? I don't think so. Or in US industry generally? Not since Gail Evans in the 80's anyway.
What is your definition of "make it"?
 

PC Principle

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There is certainly a lot of money washing around in Silicon Valley, and if you are white, male, and from an already wealthy family, then Silicon Valley is a good place to go. That is not true of the US generally.

Does anyone arrive to Silicon Valley poor and make it? I don't think so. Or in US industry generally? Not since Gail Evans in the 80's anyway.
Stop bringing up race you ignorant twàt.

It has nothing to with anything in Silicon Valley. Statistics prove this.

Have the education and ability, you get the job.

What’s you experience like with recruitment in SV?
 

gleeful

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Stop bringing up race you ignorant twàt.

It has nothing to with anything in Silicon Valley. Statistics prove this.

Have the education and ability, you get the job.

What’s you experience like with recruitment in SV?
Sure - maybe SV treats everyone with the right education equally. But the right education is expensive and that excludes the poor. It costs a lot to become an Ivyleague dropout like Gates and Zuckerburg
 

bokuden

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Europe's model is to provide a safety net, mobility is secondary. Essentially, you are protected against falling.

The US used to offer the opposite. No limit on how far you can fall, and no limit on rising either. During the last few decades, each of the routes to success were removed. All thats left to motivate work is the bottomless abyss to which you can fall. America is all stick and no carrot.
As the great George Carlin put it: " the rich have all the wealth. The middle class do all the work. And the poor are there to scare the sh1t out of the middle class and keep em working!" of course, the working poor is shooting up.
 

Jack O Neill

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Europeans are better educated? How come nearly all the new inventions , especially in tech , come from the USA ?
ever been to silicon valley thickpaddy ? , if you ever go there open your eyes and ears , its at least 80% imported brainpower
 


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