The use of Irish in local government administration

Cai

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Ynys Mon (Anglesey) Council today decided to make Welsh it's sole administrative language. The council came under Plaid Cymru control earlier this year.

Council to make Welsh its first language ... but struggles to recruit bilingual staff - Daily Post

It thus brings itelf into line with Gwynedd Council which is situated on the other side of the Menai. Gwynedd has followed the policy since it's creation in it's current form three decades ago - & there have been few if any problems.

Now it's unlikely that any Irish county could make Irish it's only administrative language - but could Donegal or Galway move in that direction & make far greater use of it in it's administration?
 


DJP

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Ynys Mon (Anglesey) Council today decided to make Welsh it's sole administrative language. The council came under Plaid Cymru control earlier this year.

...

It thus brings itelf into line with Gwynedd Council which is situated on the other side of the Menai.
Good.

Now it's unlikely that any Irish county could make Irish it's only administrative language - but could Donegal or Galway move in that direction & make far greater use of it in it's administration?
I don't know for sure but we already have Údaras na Gaeltachta ("The Gaeltacht Authority") based in Furbo / Na Forbarcha in Conamara which is in some ways like a Gaeltacht County Council. Maybe someone else can clarfiy the difference between it and county councils. I would be surprised if Galway County Council and Donegal County Council do not have strong Irish language provision of services in their councils.

A sad thing about UnaG and the Gaeltacht in general is that the Gaeltacht boundaries have still not be redrawn. They will be probably in several years but it's sad that there are large areas officially in the Gaeltacht and part of UnaG's remit that do not have any, or only little, Irish spoken in them in the community. Furbo is not even much of a Gaeltacht either or so I have heard!
 

Deadlock

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Good.



I don't know for sure but we already have Údaras na Gaeltachta ("The Gaeltacht Authority") based in Furbo / Na Forbarcha in Conamara which is in some ways like a Gaeltacht County Council. Maybe someone else can clarfiy the difference between it and county councils. I would be surprised if Galway County Council and Donegal County Council do not have strong Irish language provision of services in their councils.

A sad thing about UnaG and the Gaeltacht in general is that the Gaeltacht boundaries have still not be redrawn. They will be probably in several years but it's sad that there are large areas officially in the Gaeltacht and part of UnaG's remit that do not have any, or only little, Irish spoken in them in the community. Furbo is not even much of a Gaeltacht either or so I have heard!
Can I ask out of uninformed curiosity, if you think that the Gaeltacht boundaries are in need of redrawing, is that because they are growing or in retreat?
 

USER1234

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Now it's unlikely that any Irish county could make Irish it's only administrative language - but could Donegal or Galway move in that direction & make far greater use of it in it's administration?
Not only is it unlikely but it would be illegal while irish is the first offical language, english is also an offical language therefore they coudnt refuse to do business in English!

Also it would be highly impractical as most people dont know irish well enough & because of this it would impeade peoples right to what councils are doing on their behalf
 

cricket

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It is almost impossible to do business as gaeilge with most government departments without massive hassle.
As for semi-states, a complete no-no.
That's why the shinners demands of a rights based language act in the north are crazy. Designed to annoy the other side rather than promote the language.
 

Windowshopper

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It is almost impossible to do business as gaeilge with most government departments without massive hassle.
As for semi-states, a complete no-no.
That's why the shinners demands of a rights based language act in the north are crazy. Designed to annoy the other side rather than promote the language.
While I do think there is some DUP poking going on, I think the reason Acht na Gaeilge has got so much traction is that Irish is as much a symbol as an actual language and the DUP's attitude towards it is seen as a stand in to their attitude towards nationalists. It must be really annoying being a nationalist listening to your ancestral language, even if one does not speak it, being disrespected while having to tolerate marches and (in their eyes) other displays of cultural supremacism on an ongoing basis. I suspect that nationalism feels that it signed up to the GFA status quo in good faith, and that the DUP hasn't.
 
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hollandia

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It is almost impossible to do business as gaeilge with most government departments without massive hassle.
As for semi-states, a complete no-no.
That's why the shinners demands of a rights based language act in the north are crazy. Designed to annoy the other side rather than promote the language.
Yes, that's why the SDLP, the greens, alliance and PBP are asking for it too.

 

cricket

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While I do think there is some DUP poking going on, I think the reason Acht na Gaeilge has got so much traction is that Irish is as much a symbol as an actual language and the DUP's attitude towards it is seen as a stand in to their attitude towards nationalists. It must be really annoying being a nationalist listening to your ancestral language, even if one does not speaks it, being disrespected while having to tolerate marches and (in their eyes) other displays of cultural supremacism on an ongoing basis. I suspect that nationalism feels that it signed up to the GFA status quo in good faith, and that the DUP hasn't.
I agree that neanderthals like Campbell and others have engaged in obscene behaviour towards the language and did so long before the language act became an issue. A rights based act, however, would, apparently, give anyone the legal right to conduct business with the state as gaeilge. As I said, you can't even do that in ROI. I previously posted about a relative who, after years of trying,eventually gave up, when dealing with the tax office especially.

If tried in the north, it would create so much resentment that the language would become a fountain of hate .Peig Sayers for nordies.
 
D

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Interesting that you chose Galway as one of your County Councils.

Once upon a time, Galway had a mayor who insisted that people used his name as Gaeilge. It was on his election propaganda and posters, the ballot etc.

He had designs on higher office and ran for the Dáil, still insisting that he be known by his name as Gaeilge. People throughout the constituency of Galway West would expect to be able to converse as Gaeilge with anyone who had insisted that they be called by their ainm Gaeleach. Poor lad hit the doorsteps and had barely a word of Irish...Is maith liom cáca milis. type of thing.

Ended in tears, and an appointment to the Senate courtesy of na Glasraí. That also ended in tears. He was even reduced to posting on here for a while.

So...while there's certainly a chance that certain areas of particular districts in a few counties could (and some even do) conduct their day to day as Gaeilge, I'm not sure that there's much chance that we're going to see it on a county council level.
 

Cai

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Not only is it unlikely but it would be illegal while irish is the first offical language, english is also an offical language therefore they coudnt refuse to do business in English!

Also it would be highly impractical as most people dont know irish well enough & because of this it would impeade peoples right to what councils are doing on their behalf
I think you ms understand.

Everybody in Wales is legally entitled to interact with local authorities in Welsh or English.

The change in Ynys Mon concerns the internal language of the council. It was bilingual, it's changing to Welsh only.
 

Cai

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Interesting that you chose Galway as one of your County Councils.

Once upon a time, Galway had a mayor who insisted that people used his name as Gaeilge. It was on his election propaganda and posters, the ballot etc.

He had designs on higher office and ran for the Dáil, still insisting that he be known by his name as Gaeilge. People throughout the constituency of Galway West would expect to be able to converse as Gaeilge with anyone who had insisted that they be called by their ainm Gaeleach. Poor lad hit the doorsteps and had barely a word of Irish...Is maith liom cáca milis. type of thing.

Ended in tears, and an appointment to the Senate courtesy of na Glasraí. That also ended in tears. He was even reduced to posting on here for a while.

So...while there's certainly a chance that certain areas of particular districts in a few counties could (and some even do) conduct their day to day as Gaeilge, I'm not sure that there's much chance that we're going to see it on a county council level.
I chose Galway & Donegal because I assume that's where you've got the highest percentage of people who use Irish on a regular basis.
 

cricket

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I think you ms understand.

Everybody in Wales is legally entitled to interact with local authorities in Welsh or English.

The change in Ynys Mon concerns the internal language of the council. It was bilingual, it's changing to Welsh only.
You mean among the workforce ? Would they all be fluent in Welsh ?
 

Cai

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You mean among the workforce ? Would they all be fluent in Welsh ?
In Gwynedd yes - an ability to speak Welsh, or at least a readiness to learn - would have been necessary since the council came to existence.

Most of the Ynys Mon workforce, although not all would be Welsh speaking - so they have something of a challenge to put their policy in place over the next few years.

Welsh would be the language normally used in council & committee meetings in both councils, although there is a translation service for those who need it.
 

McTell

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No
I chose Galway & Donegal because I assume that's where you've got the highest percentage of people who use Irish on a regular basis.

Be careful what you wish for, there's parts where Polish, Chinese and Brazilian portuguese is "used on a regular basis", much more so than our former language. They pay taxes and are the "new irish".

Even a place like Gort had 1/3 brazilians until the crash, and could have them again. That's a lot more than have spoken irish in gort on a daily basis since the 1800s.

"I like it here, it's quiet, better for the children" - Integration in Ireland's 'little Brazil'


Ask yourself, are the reform-pushers more interested in the language or in real life tax paying people? If it's the language, then you can suspect a touch of th'oul aspergers. Language is for the convenience of people, end of.
 
D

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The motion passed easily, but it upset some. Ex Tory AM & independent councillor Peter Rogers who moved to a Welsh speaking village 47 years ago & who's children speak Welsh fluently requested that technology be provided to protect him from the language during the debate - video at the bottom of the page.

https://golwg360.cymru/newyddion/cymru/508205-onid-gennym-dechnoleg-atal-gohebiaeth-gymraeg
Will it work like the swear filter on her?

************************ ************************er.
 

mr_anderson

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While I do think there is some DUP poking going on, I think the reason Acht na Gaeilge has got so much traction is that Irish is as much a symbol as an actual language and the DUP's attitude towards it is seen as a stand in to their attitude towards nationalists. It must be really annoying being a nationalist listening to your ancestral language, even if one does not speak it, being disrespected while having to tolerate marches and (in their eyes) other displays of cultural supremacism on an ongoing basis. I suspect that nationalism feels that it signed up to the GFA status quo in good faith, and that the DUP hasn't.
I agree with you, but then you also highlight the DUP side of things.

You correctly state that Irish ''is as much a symbol as an actual language''.
Now imagine Irish signposts in Unionist & Loyalist areas.
What symbol would that represent to those inhabitants ?
 


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