The Voice of the Moderates Need to be Heard

bactrian

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There is a headline in the Irish Times

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/zealots-on-both-sides-prepare-for-battle-over-eighth-amendment-1.3342238?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/zealots-on-both-sides-prepare-for-battle-over-eighth-amendment-1.3342238

Zealots on both sides prepare for battle over Eighth Amendment

Anti-abortion and pro-choice activists will create a bear pit ahead of referendum


I really do not want to listen to the extremists on either side of this debate. I want to hear rational debate. There is a particular "Pro-Lifer" (If you need to pigeonhole me I'm pro-life) I despise. He (that is as far as I go in identification) makes me reluctant to admit my preference. He , in my view, hates women(I'm male) and does not particularly like children. He works from an agenda of hate(That is a really nasty thing to say but much as I would wish it was not true , it is!).

If this was public broadcasting I would have to say that there is an equally poisonous "Pro-Choicer" . I cannot name one.

BTW

I accuse the Broadcast Media of taking the easy and cowardly option when it comes to debate on this topic.


"Broadcast Media " have chosen to only air extreme views. For every second one extreme view is aired , the corresponding opposite opinion will be matched. If you were to add up the number of persons who hold extreme views , I believe, they would be a small minority.

We need to move the debate into a space where there is respect for opposing views, where we listen before we judge.
 


Mick Mac

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Seems a solid start and an honest position.

I'd vote Yes but I respect how you've outlined your perspective.
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

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What moderate cares enough to go on broadcast media to discuss this?

There's your problem.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
One of the main reasons why this 'debate' has become so poisonous is because it is so long overdue.

I suppose we'll see some of the people responsible for that in the Oireachtas moo-ing about how awful it is that there are such strong views.

To be honest while I would prefer that the country vote to remove the 8th I'm not actually that bothered about which way the vote might go as voting to keep it will change very little.

Pro-choicers will still access the abortion pill or go to the UK and other countries to terminate as they prefer.

Time and tide will inevitably decide this debate whether it is in 2018 or 2025. That's one thing I'm certain of.

I'm going to enjoy the sight of the Oireachtas sh1tting itself in case it is asked to frame suitable legislation though.
 

asset test

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Mostly men I notice on the zealous anti choice side for some reason, and they come out of their mysogynistic closets whenever anything to do with women's rights such as this are on the horizon. I can think of at least five off the top of my head right now.

Naturally women are more prevalent on the pro choice side. They have to fight their corner..

I will be watching for the date of this referendum and plan to be far outside the country with no access to TV when the vitriol really starts to rack up. I doubt it will be pleasant for either side.

Anyway, the moderates will IMV keep their heads down and vote the way they choose without aligning themselves with zealots from either side.
 

Boy M5

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This referendum, for reasons you identify, will tear the country assunder.
It's our Brexit, it will bring out extremists and poison our political economy & society.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
No one is making anyone tune into it. I suspect also most people will have made their minds up and won't be moved one way or the other so there isn't much in the way of a floating 'don't know' to be won with this one.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
I will definitely keep a copy of the papers the day after the result though even though I haven't bought a mainstream Irish newspaper for over ten years.

If it goes as I suspect it will the Times and the Indo will be legendary that day for the wailing and gnashing of teeth accompanied by an absolutely orchestral form of hyperbole with dire prognostications of tidal waves of locusts and seals falling from the sky on the heads of the unbelievers and all sorts.

it will be magnificent and the cloud of hyperbole will probably outdo Skyjfjuge- Fugiskijukjull- that Icelandic volcano that time.
 

mr_anderson

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Mostly men I notice on the zealous anti choice side for some reason, and they come out of their mysogynistic closets whenever anything to do with women's rights such as this are on the horizon. I can think of at least five off the top of my head right now.

Every man I know under 50 years of age (bar one) is pro-choice.
 

Ireniall

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There is a headline in the Irish Times

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/zealots-on-both-sides-prepare-for-battle-over-eighth-amendment-1.3342238?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fopinion%2Fzealots-on-both-sides-prepare-for-battle-over-eighth-amendment-1.3342238

Zealots on both sides prepare for battle over Eighth Amendment

Anti-abortion and pro-choice activists will create a bear pit ahead of referendum


I really do not want to listen to the extremists on either side of this debate. I want to hear rational debate. There is a particular "Pro-Lifer" (If you need to pigeonhole me I'm pro-life) I despise. He (that is as far as I go in identification) makes me reluctant to admit my preference. He , in my view, hates women(I'm male) and does not particularly like children. He works from an agenda of hate(That is a really nasty thing to say but much as I would wish it was not true , it is!).

If this was public broadcasting I would have to say that there is an equally poisonous "Pro-Choicer" . I cannot name one.

BTW

I accuse the Broadcast Media of taking the easy and cowardly option when it comes to debate on this topic.


"Broadcast Media " have chosen to only air extreme views. For every second one extreme view is aired , the corresponding opposite opinion will be matched. If you were to add up the number of persons who hold extreme views , I believe, they would be a small minority.

We need to move the debate into a space where there is respect for opposing views, where we listen before we judge.
The mainstream is finally in favour of limited enough abortion and that particular point of view now has the benefit of being supported by mainly thinking , reasonable people and is not burdened by illiterate half-wits who've been handed their opinions by faintly dim officers of a once dominant sect with its headquarters in another country a thousand miles away and whose determined other-worldliness is an inevitable result of their inability to grasp even the basics of survival in the world in which most of us have to exist. That said -there are good Catholics and Catholicism has done a lot of good too. You just have to know when to tell them to shut up and cop on.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
I might even chance a trip home for this one. It isn't every day you get to see the Beni O'Gesserit stream in from the desert sands and the Oases of Mai'nute to park their camels in the streets and ululate from the top of newspaper buildings.
 

GDPR

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There is a headline in the Irish Times

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/zealots-on-both-sides-prepare-for-battle-over-eighth-amendment-1.3342238?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/zealots-on-both-sides-prepare-for-battle-over-eighth-amendment-1.3342238

Zealots on both sides prepare for battle over Eighth Amendment

Anti-abortion and pro-choice activists will create a bear pit ahead of referendum


I really do not want to listen to the extremists on either side of this debate. I want to hear rational debate. There is a particular "Pro-Lifer" (If you need to pigeonhole me I'm pro-life) I despise. He (that is as far as I go in identification) makes me reluctant to admit my preference. He , in my view, hates women(I'm male) and does not particularly like children. He works from an agenda of hate(That is a really nasty thing to say but much as I would wish it was not true , it is!).

If this was public broadcasting I would have to say that there is an equally poisonous "Pro-Choicer" . I cannot name one.

BTW

I accuse the Broadcast Media of taking the easy and cowardly option when it comes to debate on this topic.


"Broadcast Media " have chosen to only air extreme views. For every second one extreme view is aired , the corresponding opposite opinion will be matched. If you were to add up the number of persons who hold extreme views , I believe, they would be a small minority.

We need to move the debate into a space where there is respect for opposing views, where we listen before we judge.
No debate can be had until the question to be put to the people in the referendum is settled. At that point all the fluffy nonsense can be put to one side and the issue to be decided debated in full.
 

asset test

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I personally doubt it will pass this time around.

Any polls that anyone is aware of yet?

Whatever the outcome I just hope there will be no triumphalism by the so called "winning" side. It is not something that will ever have a winner really.

It is a matter of rights and freedoms that women can already access over the internet (pills), or travel for anyway. So the game is up in that regard, looking at it kind of logically.
 

Spanner Island

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There is a headline in the Irish Times

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/zealots-on-both-sides-prepare-for-battle-over-eighth-amendment-1.3342238?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/zealots-on-both-sides-prepare-for-battle-over-eighth-amendment-1.3342238

Zealots on both sides prepare for battle over Eighth Amendment

Anti-abortion and pro-choice activists will create a bear pit ahead of referendum


I really do not want to listen to the extremists on either side of this debate. I want to hear rational debate. There is a particular "Pro-Lifer" (If you need to pigeonhole me I'm pro-life) I despise. He (that is as far as I go in identification) makes me reluctant to admit my preference. He , in my view, hates women(I'm male) and does not particularly like children. He works from an agenda of hate(That is a really nasty thing to say but much as I would wish it was not true , it is!).

If this was public broadcasting I would have to say that there is an equally poisonous "Pro-Choicer" . I cannot name one.

BTW

I accuse the Broadcast Media of taking the easy and cowardly option when it comes to debate on this topic.

"Broadcast Media " have chosen to only air extreme views. For every second one extreme view is aired , the corresponding opposite opinion will be matched. If you were to add up the number of persons who hold extreme views , I believe, they would be a small minority.

We need to move the debate into a space where there is respect for opposing views, where we listen before we judge.
The middle ground needs to be heard on all sorts of issues... including in politics... because it's the middle ground that suits the most people as opposed to either of the extremes.

It's not very sexy but it is worth fighting for.

Regarding the upcoming referendum... I've made up my mind how I'll be voting on this issue... I'm part of the middle ground... I support the availability of abortion in some cases but not on demand... although I have decided that if the anti abortion in all circumstances zealots succeed in producing a choice of either nothing or on demand I will vote for on demand. The eighth should be repealed regardless.

I made my mind up on this a long time ago and it's been liberating as it enables me to avoid and ignore all the noise around this issue which in all likelihood will only get louder and more unhinged as the vote approaches...
 

razorblade

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There is a headline in the Irish Times

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/zealots-on-both-sides-prepare-for-battle-over-eighth-amendment-1.3342238?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/zealots-on-both-sides-prepare-for-battle-over-eighth-amendment-1.3342238

Zealots on both sides prepare for battle over Eighth Amendment

Anti-abortion and pro-choice activists will create a bear pit ahead of referendum


I really do not want to listen to the extremists on either side of this debate. I want to hear rational debate. There is a particular "Pro-Lifer" (If you need to pigeonhole me I'm pro-life) I despise. He (that is as far as I go in identification) makes me reluctant to admit my preference. He , in my view, hates women(I'm male) and does not particularly like children. He works from an agenda of hate(That is a really nasty thing to say but much as I would wish it was not true , it is!).

If this was public broadcasting I would have to say that there is an equally poisonous "Pro-Choicer" . I cannot name one.

BTW

I accuse the Broadcast Media of taking the easy and cowardly option when it comes to debate on this topic.


"Broadcast Media " have chosen to only air extreme views. For every second one extreme view is aired , the corresponding opposite opinion will be matched. If you were to add up the number of persons who hold extreme views , I believe, they would be a small minority.

We need to move the debate into a space where there is respect for opposing views, where we listen before we judge.
+ 100
 

cricket

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Having canvassed extensively in the two divorce referendums, I do not expect the upcoming one to be a bastion of reasonable debate. These things seem to bring out the headcases on both sides.
I can still hear the voice of a woman screaming at me while leafleting in Cork city centre saying that I and others would be responsible for babies being snatched from their beds in the middle of the night and never seen again.
 

Ardillaun

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I liked the way Jon Stewart handled his interview of a pro-lifer on The Daily Show. He made very few jokes and respected her position while disagreeing with her. It’s a sad business and we all know what happens during an abortion. I regard it as necessary but I do understand why people on the other side are so passionately opposed. The main thing is for each person to make an effort to be as restrained as possible in the way they debate this sensitive issue.
 

Betson

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I think only a Minority of people are really passionate either way on this issue.

I think for most people the issue is just nuisance one that they want to get out of the way one way or other.

I think the repeal side will win easily if they can get people out to vote , but a lot of those who would vote pro choice might not be relied upon to actually turn up and vote as the issue is not something that keeps them awake at night , and they will be bored stiff of the debate by the time the referendum comes around.

You will have a lot of dislikabe people on both sides heading up the campaigns.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Some film from the referendum on the 8th amendment in 1983. About 1.55 minutes in you can distinctly hear John Walters and Breda O'Bien.

[video]https://youtu.be/QZOupbP3v_E[/video]
 


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