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The war of the Rose

ShinnerBot No.32564844524

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So King Howlin Austerity has been coronated, the PP closed ranks and refused a democratic contest, and the young pretender has been shut out. I guess the problem with Labour these days is that as the slide downward continues, this will appear as triumphalism on the Shinners part, but in reality the seven Labour seats would be of more value to the left bloc rather than being in turmoil and chaos....but then, there's how you want things to be, and how they are.

As it is, Labour are on the precipice of a civil war, and while for this thread it's by no means guaranteed, I'd rather tee this up now and see how it develops because even if they keep it together, in years to come this will have been one of the points in the party's history where they came very close to the edge.

So where do we stand?

The current issue of phoenix reports: "LABOUR PARTY FACING CIVIL WAR"
P.ie has an agreement with phoenix not to repost the Phoenix's articles to protect the Phoenix as a small publication(Something I fully support and respect), so I'll do my best to paraphrase with a small quote or two. The first problem reported is the danger of a negative campaign, instead of electing a leader, Labour is out to install a leader in terms of who they do not want to elect.

The TDs’ priority has not been who to elect but who not to elect, regardless of the consequences which, in this case, could lead Labour from temporary, if serious, defeat to extinction.
Another issue made in the article is that there is a distinctly ageist fear of Kelly being that the more elderly of the PP would have to serve out their terms under Kelly to the end.

Another problem highlighted with the stitch up by team AK is that not only might people leave, but that the SD's are now an available structure to fully and easily absorb the Labour refugee cohort.

Perhaps the most powerful argument pitched by AK47 and his people was that a leadership stitch-up could lead to a disgusted membership leaving an already depleted party en masse.
Then based on today's events....AK ain't happy, and it's hard to see what he might do next as reported by the Indo:

Labour at war: Kelly snubs party press conference as Howlin becomes leader

FORMER Minister Alan Kelly is to consider his position within the Labour Party after his fellow TDs refused to support his nomination for the leadership, Independent.ie can reveal.

...

Several sources across all levels of the party today said the issue may result in members submitting their resignations.
Sources also said Mr Kelly will now consider his future within the Labour fold after failing to secure a 'seconder' to support his nomination.

...

And former deputy Lord Mayor of Dublin, Henry Upton, told independent.ie:

“This is an insult to democracy and an insult to the Labour Party.”

Mr Upton, who is a member of the Labour National Executive, added;
“The new leader of the Labour Party will be elected by the parliamentary party, not the 4,000 members.”

Labour at war: Kelly snubs party press conference as Howlin becomes leader - Independent.ie
So it is, the war of the rose may begin and end in no time especially if the leakage that brought Labour to this point in the first place begins again.



Sat 21/5/16 - Updates

- Gerry Burke Limerick Secretary Resigned.
- Former senator John Gilroy and former deputy leader Henry Upton confirmed they were considering their positions in the party after the decision.
- Howlin to meet membership locally
- Talking to the SD's
 
Last edited:


RodShaft

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It's always good to secure the crown before you have the coronation.


I wonder will that Late Late Show become a collector's piece like the Nighthawks show with the Sean Doherty interview was?
 

ireallyshouldknowbetter

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I enjoyed this quote:

And former deputy Lord Mayor of Dublin, Henry Upton, told independent.ie:

“This is an insult to democracy and an insult to the Labour Party.”
After promising to block, among other things, water charges, to secure office in the first place, the Labour Party has insulting democracy down to a fine art at this stage.
 

The Preacher

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What a brilliant way to ensure Labour's comeback from the recent annihilation...appoint another tired, grey old man from the ancien regime at precisely the moment when fresh new thinking is required. Jesus wept. They really do seem determined to wipe themselves off the Irish political map. Oh well. Probably great news for the Social Democrats who are at least trying to offer something new, albeit in old bottles as well.
 

stakerwallace

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What a brilliant way to ensure Labour's comeback from the recent annihilation...appoint another tired, grey old man from the ancien regime at precisely the moment when fresh new thinking is required. Jesus wept. They really do seem determined to wipe themselves off the Irish political map. Oh well. Probably great news for the Social Democrats who are at least trying to offer something new, albeit in old bottles as well.
old? Since when is 60 old?
 

ShinnerBot No.32564844524

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There will no longer be a deputy leader of the party, a role last held by Mr Kelly.

"I further thought that a shortened contest would allow for re-engagement with our members and ensure a contest based on vision and ideas for the future direction of the party, where the best candidate would emerge with a clear mandate.

"The rest of the parliamentary party took a different view to what I believe is the members' wish and entitlement. I want to thank the huge volume of members who have confirmed that view to me."

Limerick Labour strategist Joe Kemmy this afternoon said: "The grassroots are totally unhappy, and it's nothing to do with Alan Kelly or Brendan Howlin.

"We are unhappy because we are denied the opportunity to select the leader of our party.

"It is bad for democracy, it is bad for us and it will leave a very sour taste. Some members have already resigned from the party and I am sure others will go."


This view was echoed by a Labour Councillor for Galway city, who said the wider party membership should have been given the opportunity to decide on the leadership.

Niall McNeilis said he had supported efforts by Mr Kelly to get nominated, not just because of his values but also because of the importance of a vote to pick a new leader.

The deputy Mayor of Galway said the elevation of Mr Howlin effectively meant the issue had been decided by four people, when 4,000 members around the country should have been involved in the process.


"I don't think this is good enough, it is something we are going to have to look at... so that in future, the leadership of the party would be chosen by party members," he said.

Brendan Howlin becomes new Labour Party leader - RTÉ News
McNeilis is a bigwig in the Galway structure already reeling from Derek Nolan's loss of the formidable Michael D seat. It's notable to see him take a public position. It's also notable to see Limerick stepping out as well, as we know from posters and threads here on P.ie, Limerick is a contentious spot when it comes to the left. A bit early, but it will be interesting to see the cracks on which the divides emerge.
 

Franzoni

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Only 4000 ...wow and with a teachers strike on the horizon.....
 

Franzoni

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If we learned anything from Shakepeare at least the drama and the bloodletting should be entertaining....:D
 

purpledon

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Normally I'm a Labour voter, primarily as there is nobody else, I'm glad of their demise, it can't come soon enough. The party of James Connolly has/had become a bad joke and an insult to the great man.

In the fullness of time, history will tell that Labour are as guilty of gombeenism as either FF or FG. They always propped up one or the other when they should have stood
indpendent and backed themselve as a real alternative government decades ago.

If they had refused coalition in 2011, perhaps FF would have been forced back into government with FG and we could now be talking about the demise of FF and the rise of Labour, which of course, would be a better thing for our country.

So Labour, you wanted it, you got it and because of it, you'll soon be history.

Principles are not an old fashioned idea.
 

SeanieFitz

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The Shinners are out in strength today.........nothing like a bit of blood letting to draw a shinner. They are like zombie's, smell of blood draws them.........wonder why that is?
 

SeanieFitz

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Normally I'm a Labour voter, primarily as there is nobody else, I'm glad of their demise, it can't come soon enough. The party of James Connolly has/had become a bad joke and an insult to the great man.

In the fullness of time, history will tell that Labour are as guilty of gombeenism as either FF or FG. They always propped up one or the other when they should have stood
indpendent and backed themselve as a real alternative government decades ago.

If they had refused coalition in 2011, perhaps FF would have been forced back into government with FG and we could now be talking about the demise of FF and the rise of Labour, which of course, would be a better thing for our country.

So Labour, you wanted it, you got it and because of it, you'll soon be history.

Principles are not an old fashioned idea.
Now known as "doing a SF"
 

ShinnerBot No.32564844524

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old? Since when is 60 old?
Hate to break it to you....:p

But you should be taking this more seriously, if you personally want to be as young as your shoe size, more power to you, but in terms of public perception vitality is key. Gerry's old but he makes a point being seen to be active pucking the ball and so on. By having the party elders installing Howlin as opposed to letting the membership elect him, Labour do have an open flank here.
 

stakerwallace

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I enjoyed this quote:



After promising to block, among other things, water charges, to secure office in the first place, the Labour Party has insulting democracy down to a fine art at this stage.
The implication of Mr Upton's statement is that some TD who didn't really want AK as leader should have nominated him anyway. That could be seen as enabling hypocrisy. The other implication is that Mr. Upton thinks the rules of the party he has been in are undemocratic. That begs a question. Why has he not put down motions to change these rules and electoral procedures in the past few years.
 

stakerwallace

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Hate to break it to you....:p

But you should be taking this more seriously, if you personally want to be as young as your shoe size, more power to you, but in terms of public perception vitality is key. Gerry's old but he makes a point being seen to be active pucking the ball and so on. By having the party elders installing Howlin as opposed to letting the membership elect him, Labour do have an open flank here.
I'm well north of 60 and still firing on all cylinders. Howlin looks positively young to me
 

Burnout

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Twitter
I have a life.
It's Politburo mentality...keep the old guy's on top, that way they can protect all they have and that they are due....damn the change needed, and the fact Kelly is of a different mentality does not cut the mustard. Shur is'nt that how it's done in the best of countries.

Look at Enda...useless watery unwanted career politician, but once he keeps the faithful that we never hear about in the money....who give's a shiiit.

More or less he was voted out by the people....but he can stand up there and say he will hang on till he decides to go, f..n ape....go Stalin.
 
O

Oscurito

The malcontents will be bought off with the promise of fast-tracked nominations to be candidates in the next election.

That's ultimately what they're there for.
 

Red Clover

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Amazing, the Shinners and Trots are worried about democracy in the Labour Party! The two groups that are talking wouldn't know democracy if it hit them between the eyes. One crowd think it is what the Army Council says it is and the other crowd think that it a baying mob on the streets. While Howlin is not the most exciting leader one could wish for, he will be a safe pair of hands as an interim leader until a new generation comes through. There was not a much of a choice. Alan Kelly, for all his bluff and bluster, would have been a disastrous choice for the Labour Party. The party would be better off if he left.
 

stakerwallace

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It's Politburo mentality...keep the old guy's on top, that way they can protect all they have and that they are due....damn the change needed, and the fact Kelly is of a different mentality does not cut the mustard. Shur is'nt that how it's done in the best of countries.

Look at Enda...useless watery unwanted career politician, but once he keeps the faithful that we never hear about in the money....who give's a shiiit.

More or less he was voted out by the people....but he can stand up there and say he will hang on till he decides to go, f..n ape....go Stalin.
You do know that Kenny's party has a set of rules and procedures for electing its leader and I'm sure these are known by most members. In other words it is open to them to initiate a new leadership election should they wish
 

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