The Water Charges Discussion Mega-Thread

CptSternn

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As the current thread being used for the water charges discussion is hanging off an event posting for a protest that was months ago, a few people in the thread have suggested we create a new thread away from the event listing for discussion on the topic.

As the thread also is now almost 2000 pages, creating a new one makes it a bit easier to navigate as well.

To start off I thought I'd throw this article from todays news out there...

Government accused of ‘complete hypocrisy’ over Irish Water board … but they’re having none of it

Irish Water board unveiled amid claims of hypocrisy - Independent.ie

To summarise here, last year Irish Water and our current government decided that having a secondary board of directors for Irish Water as they are part of Ervia would be redundant. They agreed to have a meeting and merge the two boards into one.

So they had a meeting and came out with three instead of one. Yes, the original two were still in place and now they have brought in even more directors to create a third board to oversee the first two.

Great job there lads, way to trim the fat.

But sure, what were we expecting from Irish Water? They have proven time and time again they are incapable of even the most basic of functions, along with Fine Gael and Labour who continually back them and even Enda Kenny who said publicly he could not fault them at all.

Yes, in the world of Irish Water 2 - 1 = 3. More massive salaries, allowances, and bonuses for everyone!
 


APettigrew92

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Aug 4, 2011
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As the current thread being used for the water charges discussion is hanging off an event posting for a protest that was months ago, a few people in the thread have suggested we create a new thread away from the event listing for discussion on the topic.

As the thread also is now almost 2000 pages, creating a new one makes it a bit easier to navigate as well.

To start off I thought I'd throw this article from todays news out there...

Government accused of ‘complete hypocrisy’ over Irish Water board … but they’re having none of it

Irish Water board unveiled amid claims of hypocrisy - Independent.ie

To summarise here, last year Irish Water and our current government decided that having a secondary board of directors for Irish Water as they are part of Ervia would be redundant. They agreed to have a meeting and merge the two boards into one.

So they had a meeting and came out with three instead of one. Yes, the original two were still in place and now they have brought in even more directors to create a third board to oversee the first two.

Great job there lads, way to trim the fat.

But sure, what were we expecting from Irish Water? They have proven time and time again they are incapable of even the most basic of functions, along with Fine Gael and Labour who continually back them and even Enda Kenny who said publicly he could not fault them at all.

Yes, in the world of Irish Water 2 - 1 = 3. More massive salaries, allowances, and bonuses for everyone!
Irish Water is defunct.

If it ever were to become a company in earnest, then you could expect people from all political spectrums to continue condemning it as a farce.

I cannot think of a Governmental botch of this level in quite a while. FG simply had to tweak their forerunners method of running the country and they could have probably retained a lot of their support if not gained more.

It's like the whole Brian Lenihan Sr. affair.

On "mature recollection", this single issue has done more to entrench opposition against this government than any other single issue.
 

Watcher2

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Joined
May 2, 2010
Messages
34,130
As the current thread being used for the water charges discussion is hanging off an event posting for a protest that was months ago, a few people in the thread have suggested we create a new thread away from the event listing for discussion on the topic.

As the thread also is now almost 2000 pages, creating a new one makes it a bit easier to navigate as well.

To start off I thought I'd throw this article from todays news out there...

Government accused of ‘complete hypocrisy’ over Irish Water board … but they’re having none of it

Irish Water board unveiled amid claims of hypocrisy - Independent.ie

To summarise here, last year Irish Water and our current government decided that having a secondary board of directors for Irish Water as they are part of Ervia would be redundant. They agreed to have a meeting and merge the two boards into one.

So they had a meeting and came out with three instead of one. Yes, the original two were still in place and now they have brought in even more directors to create a third board to oversee the first two.

Great job there lads, way to trim the fat.

But sure, what were we expecting from Irish Water? They have proven time and time again they are incapable of even the most basic of functions, along with Fine Gael and Labour who continually back them and even Enda Kenny who said publicly he could not fault them at all.

Yes, in the world of Irish Water 2 - 1 = 3. More massive salaries, allowances, and bonuses for everyone!
Erm, from your post and the article, I don't quite get the controversy. It appears there are three legal entities involved here - Ervia, Irish Water and Board Gas Networks. That would necessitate three distinct Boards of Directors. Those boards can be constituted by the same individuals but they would still need to operate independently to comply with company law.

Or is this another "anything they do MUST be bad" type of thread?
 

Lara2

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Joined
Nov 23, 2012
Messages
7,177
As the current thread being used for the water charges discussion is hanging off an event posting for a protest that was months ago, a few people in the thread have suggested we create a new thread away from the event listing for discussion on the topic.

As the thread also is now almost 2000 pages, creating a new one makes it a bit easier to navigate as well.

To start off I thought I'd throw this article from todays news out there...

Government accused of ‘complete hypocrisy’ over Irish Water board … but they’re having none of it

Irish Water board unveiled amid claims of hypocrisy - Independent.ie

To summarise here, last year Irish Water and our current government decided that having a secondary board of directors for Irish Water as they are part of Ervia would be redundant. They agreed to have a meeting and merge the two boards into one.

So they had a meeting and came out with three instead of one. Yes, the original two were still in place and now they have brought in even more directors to create a third board to oversee the first two.

Great job there lads, way to trim the fat.

But sure, what were we expecting from Irish Water? They have proven time and time again they are incapable of even the most basic of functions, along with Fine Gael and Labour who continually back them and even Enda Kenny who said publicly he could not fault them at all.

Yes, in the world of Irish Water 2 - 1 = 3. More massive salaries, allowances, and bonuses for everyone!
I agree. There should be as many threads as there are to deal with the multiple issues in IW.
Unfortunately, as a result of merging all the threads a lot of very good posts have gone unnoticed and are near impossible to find.
There should have always been separate threads for every single issue in IW just so we could see them all listed, in fairness, that could be up to 100 threads or more.
 

greengoose2

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Erm, from your post and the article, I don't quite get the controversy. It appears there are three legal entities involved here - Ervia, Irish Water and Board Gas Networks. That would necessitate three distinct Boards of Directors. Those boards can be constituted by the same individuals but they would still need to operate independently to comply with company law.

Or is this another "anything they do MUST be bad" type of thread?
Here's how they do things elsewhere.

SIG is a Swiss supplier of local energy services. The Company serves 250,000 clients in the canton of Geneva, providing water, gas, electricity and thermal energy. SIG manages wastewater, waste recycling and also offers energy and telecommunications services. All SIG activities seek to promote smarter energy consumption, within a framework of on-going sustainable development.
But it's better to do it our way. Inefficiency at its best!
 

Watcher2

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Messages
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Here's how they do things elsewhere.



But it's better to do it our way. Inefficiency at its best!
But do they do all that through one legal entity? I bet they don't. If if they don't, each legal entity will have a separate board of directors.

Sorry, I hate the fact that they established the monster quango, well, I hate more HOW they established it, but there is some real ignorant hysteria that comes with threads and discussions about Irish Water. This point on the different Boards of Directors is a prime example of it.
 

SPN

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We need a central management and capital raising entity to oversee the repair, maintenance and improvement of our national water and wastewater infrastructure.

This entity should be funded by end users on the basis of metered usage, with a free allowance.


Irish Water is a ball of shyte, is not fit for purpose, will have to be scrapped, and the management publically humiliated and sacked.

The replacement entity should be owned by the Local Authorities, should be operated independently, should be structured based on river basins, and the assets should be ringfenced in public ownership.

This can be fixed, and will be fixed, and those involved know this already. The only question that remains is how long it takes before the politicians and civil servants realise that they have no other option.

It's down to pride at this stage.
 

brughahaha

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One of the problems is a major hangover from the Celtic tiger , where a lot of people got promoted to management level who have no ability to manage . during the tiger years , it was easy , commission a consultant to tell you what to do , give it bells and whistles courtesy of an expensive PR and marketing make over and keep throwing money at the problem.
No one would ever ask you to account for the waste anyway

The mindset still remains in the Public Service as typified by Tierney and his cronies and they are simply incapable of reducing costs only ever increasing costs

In the private sector Tierney and his acolytes would have been sacked by now for lurching from badly managed crisis to badly managed crisis

That he hasn't is a joke
 

brughahaha

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But do they do all that through one legal entity? I bet they don't. If if they don't, each legal entity will have a separate board of directors.

Sorry, I hate the fact that they established the monster quango, well, I hate more HOW they established it, but there is some real ignorant hysteria that comes with threads and discussions about Irish Water. This point on the different Boards of Directors is a prime example of it.

As I understand it they are 3 divisions of the same corporate entity and therefor legally require only 1 board of directors ....
That is certainly the impression given previously
 

CptSternn

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Erm, from your post and the article, I don't quite get the controversy. It appears there are three legal entities involved here - Ervia, Irish Water and Board Gas Networks. That would necessitate three distinct Boards of Directors. Those boards can be constituted by the same individuals but they would still need to operate independently to comply with company law.

Or is this another "anything they do MUST be bad" type of thread?
The government AND Ervia at the time said they did not need the two boards. Their words, not mine.

At the time, the Government said Irish Water's board would be merged with its parent company Ervia.

In October, Environment Minister Alan Kelly said the "coming together" of the two boards was an opportunity for a "fresh look at all aspects of the organisation".
Then instead of getting rid of them they created a third and brought even more directors onboard.

You think that is a good thing? It's not. One company with one board of directors can more than handle two services. All they have accomplished now is they have created another layer to their quango they can blame so no one is ever accountable.

How can that be a good thing?
 
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CptSternn

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And the busiest night for the Dáil bar last year was….

Just in, the busiest day in the Dail bar during 2014 was...

The night the water charges bill was discussed.

Figures released by the Houses of the Oireachtas under the Freedom of Information, reveals that on 16 December 2014, the Dáil bar generated over €7,461.19.
This included the sale of 301 pints of Guinness and 139 pints of Heineken, Budweiser and Carlsberg.
That's right, the night the government voted to charge us double for water the TDs and Ministers were langered. 7,400 euros in drinks in one night? And those prices are low compared to most pubs in Dublin, so thats a LOT of drinking!

Good to see our government took its job so seriously.
 

Watcher2

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As I understand it they are 3 divisions of the same corporate entity and therefor legally require only 1 board of directors ....
That is certainly the impression given previously
I*f that is the case then my understanding all along is incorrect. I did a quick search on cro.ie for the three names. No Ervia registered (and if "ervia" was in the name I would have received search results), no "Irish Water" and the only "Bord Gais" that returned a result was Bord Gair Eireann Teoranta" which which is showing as dissolved.

Of course I could have the wrong names for the three companies/divisions but under what name would they be registered?

Of course, three divisions of the same corporate entity can and should be served only by 1 Board of Directors, legally, you need a legal entity to have a Board of Directors, everything else is merely a management team but you are really getting into a semantic bun fight at this level.
 

Watcher2

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The government AND Ervia at the time said they did not need the two boards. Their words, not mine.



Then instead of getting rid of them they created a third and brought even more directors onboard.

You think that is a good thing? It's not. One company with one board of directors can more than handle two services. All they have accomplished now is they have created another layer to their quango they can blame so no one is ever accountable.

How can that be a good thing?
Its not.
 

myksav

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Messages
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Erm, from your post and the article, I don't quite get the controversy. It appears there are three legal entities involved here - Ervia, Irish Water and Board Gas Networks. That would necessitate three distinct Boards of Directors. Those boards can be constituted by the same individuals but they would still need to operate independently to comply with company law.

Or is this another "anything they do MUST be bad" type of thread?
How strange. I did a search for Board Gas Networks and got Ervia. Gas Networks Ireland is part of Ervia.

Who is who.
IW board members:
John Tierney
Michael O Sullivan (also Board Gas Networks)
Brendan Murphy (also board Gas Networks)

Ervia board members:
Rose Hynes. Chair
Michael McNicholas (to be chair of IW and GNI)
Mari Hurley
Finbarr Kennelly

New Ervia board members:
Sean Hogan
James Martin
Celine Fitzgerald
Peter Cross
Joe Flynn (SIPTU) re-appointed

from New board appointed to oversee Irish Water - Independent.ie
 

greengoose2

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But do they do all that through one legal entity? I bet they don't. If if they don't, each legal entity will have a separate board of directors.

Sorry, I hate the fact that they established the monster quango, well, I hate more HOW they established it, but there is some real ignorant hysteria that comes with threads and discussions about Irish Water. This point on the different Boards of Directors is a prime example of it.
Did you read the link? It is done through one legal entity. It is called Services Industriels de Genève now SIG for short.

It seems important that, if someone else has a good idea, said idea should be attacked as it is never as good as the liars' one.

Running a píss up in a brewery is the Irish way.
 

damus

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Latest installment, there's no provision in the law requiring proof that you actually paid your bill before you get paid the €100 grant by the DSP! All they require is your PPS number, payment/bank details, proof of registration - (now how will that work in regards to customers who were registered up as customers when they sent back the unopened and unsigned forms), and evidence that it's your PPR.

Water bill defaulters can still claim
 


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