The Water Charges Discussion Mega-Thread



willow68

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Feb 8, 2012
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Resist water charges. This will be our yellow vest moment. Same for upping property ( =slave) tax .
 

jimbohane

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Where is the promised referendum on water ownership?
Instead we get some trivia about divorce.
The politicians here are only interested in looking after the interests of their rich friends and that goes for all the main parties. Irish Water was intended to be privatised and handed over a man who bankrolled FG and FF would have likely done the same if MM had been the Taoiseach at that time as we are all well aware of their record in looking after those who bankrolled their party. Immigration is making millions for the legal sector, building sector and landlords who own properties available for rent and is a huge burden on our economy but no party has said this is an issue that needs urgent addressing for obvious reasons and I don't mean for fear of being called a racist. The country is slowly turning into a mini England with people going about in bin bags, gangs of African youths running riot in some of the Dublin suburbs and illegal drugs available in all our towns and cities but these issues are irrelevant as our politicians don't live in the troubled spots so couldn't care less. The only party that seems to be outspoken on these issues is the fledgling National Party and come the next GE that is who anybody interested in preserving our heritage ,culture and ensuring that Ireland does not end up like England has should vote for and as far as I know they are in favour of water ownership remaining in the hands of the people of Ireland
 

shiel

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The coverage of the water supply issue in recent years highlights the hypocrisy with which this issue has been managed right back to the foundation of the state.

For nearly a century the maintenance of water infrastructure has been underfunded to the extent that a very high percentage of water is lost through leakages.

When the country went bankrupt water charges for urban areas were introduced in the budget of 2009. Rural areas have always paid for their water.

As a consequence all hell broke loose.

One political grouping, who if they had been in power this country would be somewhere between Greece and Venezuela, took to the streets and with the almost blanket approval of media protested loudly.

The political group, which has been in power for approximately 70% of the time since independence and who introduced charging for water in 2009, joined in opposing water charges.

Since most of the developed world have water services which are paid for by users the present position in this country in which people can waste water at will is indefensible.

To see the people who agitated to suspend water charges and the media who cheer led them complaining about water shortages and wastage is a sight to behold.

The people who live in Irish urban areas should pay for the usage of water the same as the people in Irish rural areas and the people in the rest of the developed world do.
 

jimbohane

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Jun 27, 2018
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833
The coverage of the water supply issue in recent years highlights the hypocrisy with which this issue has been managed right back to the foundation of the state.

For nearly a century the maintenance of water infrastructure has been underfunded to the extent that a very high percentage of water is lost through leakages.

When the country went bankrupt water charges for urban areas were introduced in the budget of 2009. Rural areas have always paid for their water.

As a consequence all hell broke loose.

One political grouping, who if they had been in power this country would be somewhere between Greece and Venezuela, took to the streets and with the almost blanket approval of media protested loudly.

The political group, which has been in power for approximately 70% of the time since independence and who introduced charging for water in 2009, joined in opposing water charges.

Since most of the developed world have water services which are paid for by users the present position in this country in which people can waste water at will is indefensible.

To see the people who agitated to suspend water charges and the media who cheer led them complaining about water shortages and wastage is a sight to behold.

The people who live in Irish urban areas should pay for the usage of water the same as the people in Irish rural areas and the people in the rest of the developed world do.
The main problem for me as with many other people who opposed the proposed water charges then was the fact that IW was ripe to be privatised and lurking in the background was an old FG bankroller who many years past managed to get his hands on the licence for mobile phones thanks to a corrupt FG minister of communications. Kenny the Taoiseach at that time was a good friend and as such resisted the public calling to make provisions that IW could never fall into the hands of profiteers. Many people also had concerns that hard pressed working families who after having income tax and universal social charges deducted from their wages would now have to pay a water charge on top of the charges for refuse collection and household property tax that they were already paying from their take home pay. It was the straw that broke the camels back so they took to the streets to vent their anger. The government backed down at the time and put it on the back burner.
A census of 2016 shows that we have over 2 million houses and apartments which at a cost of 100euro per annum for water would total 200 million euro which is less than what we are currently spending to house asylum seekers and migrants.
If our government got its priorities correct it would tackle the immigration problem and use the saving to fund IW but that is probably too much to ask as the easy option is tax the sector of society that is most vulnerable and easy to extract money from ie the PAYE sector.
 
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shiel

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The main problem for me as with many other people who opposed the proposed water charges then was the fact that IW was ripe to be privatised and lurking in the background was an old FG bankroller who many years past managed to get his hands on the licence for mobile phones thanks to a corrupt FG minister of communications. Kenny the Taoiseach at that time was a good friend and as such resisted the public calling to make provisions that IW could never fall into the hands of profiteers. Many people also had concerns that hard pressed working families who after having income tax and universal social charges deducted from their wages would now have to pay a water charge on top of the charges for refuse collection and household property tax that they were already paying from their take home pay. It was the straw that broke the camels back so they took to the streets to vent their anger. The government backed down at the time and put it on the back burner.
A census of 2016 shows that we have over 2 million houses and apartments which at a cost of 100euro per annum for water would total 200 million euro which is less than what we are currently spending to house asylum seekers and migrants.
If our government got its priorities correct it would tackle the immigration problem and use the saving to fund IW but that is probably too much to ask as the easy option is tax the sector of society that is most vulnerable and easy to extract money from ie the PAYE sector.
The immigration, corrupt politician, privatisation issues are issues we have in common with the rest of the democratic world and are a distraction from the basic issues of the provision of an adequate water/sewage system.

Firstly the citizens of a large part of rural Ireland, like the vast majority of democratic citizens in the developed world, pay directly for their sewage and water supply systems.

Secondly there has been inadequate public funding for water and sewage treatment in this country since independence.

This has led to the ongoing threats to public health from pollution and to a loss of up to 50% of water from damaged pipes.

What is the approach to these problems in politics and media?

The politicians, who had to introduce water charges in the budget of 2009 as a result of their bankrupting the country, subsequently did a u-turn and now oppose them.

The failures in the infrastructure of the sewage/water supply system of this country, including the immoral waste of a high proportion of the water, is due to an attitude to funding the system where indulging in hypocrisy is unchallenged.
 

soubresauts

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Jun 2, 2007
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Some people refuse to pay for water simply because it is fluoridated. Why pay for poisoned water?

Water fluoridation is not only immoral, it is economic, political and medical lunacy.

Hey, let's force every member of the population to ingest unmeasured amounts of a cumulative poison, all day every day, for their whole lives. What could possibly go wrong?

Fluoridation has been going on for 55 years now. Public health in Ireland is in a disastrous state. Tooth decay is rampant. Huge numbers of kids are suffering with dental problems. There are more than four times as many dentists as there were before fluoridation, and the dentists are the highest-earning profession.

Any politician who questions fluoridation is labelled a "nutter".

It all makes sense, doesn't it?
 

willow68

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Feb 8, 2012
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Some people refuse to pay for water simply because it is fluoridated. Why pay for poisoned water?

Water fluoridation is not only immoral, it is economic, political and medical lunacy.

Hey, let's force every member of the population to ingest unmeasured amounts of a cumulative poison, all day every day, for their whole lives. What could possibly go wrong?

Fluoridation has been going on for 55 years now. Public health in Ireland is in a disastrous state. Tooth decay is rampant. Huge numbers of kids are suffering with dental problems. There are more than four times as many dentists as there were before fluoridation, and the dentists are the highest-earning profession.

Any politician who questions fluoridation is labelled a "nutter".

It all makes sense, doesn't it?
I want to like your post more. Agree 100%.
 

McTell

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Oct 16, 2012
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No
I've been to that sewage plant described as a "water treatment works", doing water tests from my well, maybe a decade ago.

It's like a 5-storey car park with the goo cascading from one level to another. It's right on the sea in case a pipe gets blocked. You can smell it before you get there.

Why not drop a pipe out to the edge of the bay plus 5 miles, and just pump it out there? Feed up all-a dem dublin bay prawns.
 

middleground

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Nov 30, 2014
Messages
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Some people refuse to pay for water simply because it is fluoridated. Why pay for poisoned water?

Water fluoridation is not only immoral, it is economic, political and medical lunacy.

Hey, let's force every member of the population to ingest unmeasured amounts of a cumulative poison, all day every day, for their whole lives. What could possibly go wrong?

Fluoridation has been going on for 55 years now. Public health in Ireland is in a disastrous state. Tooth decay is rampant. Huge numbers of kids are suffering with dental problems. There are more than four times as many dentists as there were before fluoridation, and the dentists are the highest-earning profession.

Any politician who questions fluoridation is labelled a "nutter".

It all makes sense, doesn't it?
All the protests were because of fluoridation? Wow!
 

shiel

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Feb 14, 2011
Messages
17,765
That is due to the fact that water/sewage infrastructure were underfunded since the foundation of the state.

That was proposed to be dealt with when the country went broke in the 2009 budget.

The problem is that people who introduced the means to adequately fund the water/sewage system then have now opposed it.

In addition people who if they had their way would have this country like Venezuela were supported by media in taking to the streets to oppose what is the usual method of funding water/sewage systems throughout the developed world.

The level of hypocrisy of dealing with this issue mindboggling.
 
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PBP voter

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Sep 18, 2015
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That is due to the fact that water/sewage infrastructure were underfunded since the foundation of the state.

That was proposed to be dealt with when the country went broke in the 2009 budget.

The problem is that people who introduced the means to adequately fund the water/sewage system have now opposed it.

In addition people who if they had their way would have this country like Venezuela were supported by media in taking to the streets to oppose what is the usual method of funding water/sewage systems throughout the developed world.

The level of hypocrisy of dealing with this issue mindboggling.
Agree.

You can be 100% certain that the capital budget will always be cut when a downturn happens.
The model of paying for water by direct taxation will never work.
It's why every other developed country have water charges.
 

BACKTOBASICS

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Jan 22, 2014
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All the protests were because of fluoridation? Wow!
No. Do more research. We already pay for water through 2% on Vat and 5% on motor taxation. Our water should not be fluoridated (poisoned) because of the damage it causes to peoples health. Only fools and knaves would want to pay for water twice, and bad water at that, with the potential to kill you.

It has proven to be useless against tooth decay as dentists are the winners. Go figure, dentists and pharmaceutical/chemical suppliers are the only winners.
By the way, children are now being thought to clean their teeth as babies/toddlers, where as, years ago, basic cleaning was ignored.

Get rid of fluoridation now, and stop medicating the Irish population into meekness and dumbness, so they cannot think or question (like your good self). The County Councillors could do something useful for once and give us clean water without the fluoridation poison.

I see though, you have your own well, and your bias is obvious, just because you have costs associated with your sewage, but not all of us are as lucky as you. However, before you go on about paying your own maintenance costs etc., you choose to buy or live where you are, and knew about these charges beforehand, but again I would not mind that if I had pure clean well water like yourself.
 
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middleground

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No. Do more research. We already pay for water through 2% on Vat and 5% on motor taxation. Our water should not be fluoridated (poisoned) because of the damage it causes to peoples health. Only fools and knaves would want to pay for water twice, and bad water at that, with the potential to kill you.

It has proven to be useless against tooth decay as dentists are the winners. Go figure, dentists and pharmaceutical/chemical suppliers are the only winners.
By the way, children are now being thought to clean their teeth as babies/toddlers, where as, years ago, basic cleaning was ignored.

Get rid of fluoridation now, and stop medicating the Irish population into meekness and dumbness, so they cannot think or question (like your good self). The County Councillors could do something useful for once and give us clean water without the fluoridation poison.

I see though, you have your own well
, and your bias is obvious, just because you have costs associated with your sewage, but not all of us are as lucky as you. However, before you go on about paying your own maintenance costs etc., you choose to buy or live where you are, and knew about these charges beforehand, but again I would not mind that if I had pure clean well water like yourself.
What gave you the idea that I have a well? Can you give me a reference to the posting indicating that?

I would prefer water charges to be direct so that those using more pay more and it creates an incentive to repair property side leaks which are a huge waste of water.
 

cobhguy

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Jun 22, 2010
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No. Do more research. We already pay for water through 2% on Vat and 5% on motor taxation. Our water should not be fluoridated (poisoned) because of the damage it causes to peoples health. Only fools and knaves would want to pay for water twice, and bad water at that, with the potential to kill you.
You are wrong about paying twice. The 2% Vat and 5% on motor tax goes to the local goverment fund for general spending of Councils. It was not ring fenced for water.
 

BACKTOBASICS

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Jan 22, 2014
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You are wrong about paying twice. The 2% Vat and 5% on motor tax goes to the local goverment fund for general spending of Councils. It was not ring fenced for water.
Well, it was brought in for that purpose, and the vat and tax increased for that purpose by Brendan Howlin when he was the Minister in charge - spending it otherwise meant the taxpayer was conned - once again.
Saying that, funds are always taken from an intended area to plug gaps in funding in another area, and it appears that this was done in this case.
 


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