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juanpablo

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St James and Tallaght are both on the Luas.
So? you think Clonmel should have improved transport links to Waterford and Cork? Seeing as the town has seen improved road & public transport connections announced or in place to both cities then your point is mute.
 


spidermom

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St James and Tallaght are both on the Luas.

You can't take the luas during a cardiac arrest!!!!


Apologies for trite remark...but you are not comparing like with like...

Tallaght...a population catchment of 750,000 dub mid leinster...with (still) some unique specialities (trauma orthopaedics and pancreaticobiliary surgery plus renal...). SJH with maxillary facial and burns plus a very elderly population PLUS the largest and most advanced COE........and CLONMEL!!!!

HSE.ie - Health Service Executive Website - South Tipperary General Hospital, Clonmel
 

Baron von Biffo

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So? you think Clonmel should have improved transport links to Waterford and Cork? Seeing as the town has seen improved road & public transport connections announced or in place to both cities then your point is mute.
No, I'm pointing to a double standard. A provincial TD who defends local services is labelled a parish pump politician but no such criticism attaches to a Dublin TD in similar circumstances. You dismissed the notion of merging two Dublin facilities that are just a short distance apart but you have no problem with rural people having to travel 30km farther for services.
 

hiding behind a poster

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It doesn't really matter he can rule out going in with FF right now if he likes, but when the votes are counted and if the arithmetic dictates that Labour and FF should form a government - which appears unlikely - well in that scenario Labour and FF will form a government. Also should Labour be in government, Gilmore should consider which option will result in the most Labour policies being implemented, when doing a deal with whoever Labour's prospective government partners are to be post election.
But you're prepared to con the electorate in advance of the election, and then deceive them afterwards. You're even more compatible with FF than you think.
 

Baron von Biffo

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You can't take the luas during a cardiac arrest!!!!
True. But if you're having a heart attack in Dublin then the extra distance between St. James and Tallaght is a lot shorter than the distance between Clonmel and Cork. You have a better chance of surviving to get to the hospital in the former case.

Apologies for trite remark...but you are not comparing like with like...

Tallaght...a population catchment of 750,000 dub mid leinster...with (still) some unique specialities (trauma orthopaedics and pancreaticobiliary surgery plus renal...). SJH with maxillary facial and burns plus a very elderly population PLUS the largest and most advanced COE........and CLONMEL!!!!

HSE.ie - Health Service Executive Website - South Tipperary General Hospital, Clonmel
I know I'm not comparing like with like, that's the point. Provincial hospitals are being downgraded and closed on the basis that new centralised services are being provided. If it was proposed to close St. James and reproduce all its services in a new centre of excellence in Tallaght there would be uproar. The very people who would sneer at a rural politician for his parish pump attitude would be at the front of the queue to oppose such a plan.
 

juanpablo

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No, I'm pointing to a double standard. A provincial TD who defends local services is labelled a parish pump politician but no such criticism attaches to a Dublin TD in similar circumstances. You dismissed the notion of merging two Dublin facilities that are just a short distance apart but you have no problem with rural people having to travel 30km farther for services.
No there is no double standard. You've just presented a strawman argument based on a ridiculous comparison between a small town hospital and 2 large urban hospitals in a large Metropolitan area.

Matty has fallen back on a fail safe option of bailing on FF because he knows it's days are numbered in Government and it's every man for himself on the backbenches. Perhaps the South Tipp electorate will ignore the crisis him and his ilk in FF have landed the country in and say "good man Matty" when he moans about them up in Dublin. They'd be fools to falls for it.

You can be sure if he had landed a plum junior ministry position or higher :)eek:) then he'd have no problem with whatever is proposed for Clonmels hospital.
 

goatstoe

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But you're prepared to con the electorate in advance of the election, and then deceive them afterwards. You're even more compatible with FF than you think.
Gilmore has said he'd prefer to see FF out of government however when the votes are counted the Dail arithmetic will dictate the make up of the government. There's no con involved, what Eamon Gilmore must do is maximise the Labour vote and maximise the implementation of Labour policies in the event of forming a government.
 

Baron von Biffo

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No there is no double standard. You've just presented a strawman argument based on a ridiculous comparison between a small town hospital and 2 large urban hospitals in a large Metropolitan area.
You live in Dublin, don't you?

Matty has fallen back on a fail safe option of bailing on FF because he knows it's days are numbered in Government and it's every man for himself on the backbenches. Perhaps the South Tipp electorate will ignore the crisis him and his ilk in FF have landed the country in and say "good man Matty" when he moans about them up in Dublin. They'd be fools to falls for it.

You can be sure if he had landed a plum junior ministry position or higher :)eek:) then he'd have no problem with whatever is proposed for Clonmels hospital.
I have no doubt that McGrath is as cynical as any other politician but let's be honest here, he's just doing what Tony Gregory was praised for doing but he's doing it on the wrong side of the M50.
 

hiding behind a poster

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Gilmore has said he'd prefer to see FF out of government however when the votes are counted the Dail arithmetic will dictate the make up of the government. There's no con involved, what Eamon Gilmore must do is maximise the Labour vote and maximise the implementation of Labour policies in the event of forming a government.
That is a con job. And the handy thing is that the people, and the media, remember being conned by Labour in 1992 - so during the election campaign, any time a Labour person uses the first part of your claim, he or she will be forced to either admit or deny the second part. Denying the second part conclusively rules out FF, while admitting it hands political gold to FG, along with a pile of what would have been Labour seat gains.

Fact is that if FG and Labour have the seats, there'll be an FG-Labour government.
 

juanpablo

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You live in Dublin, don't you?



I have no doubt that McGrath is as cynical as any other politician but let's be honest here, he's just doing what Tony Gregory was praised for doing but he's doing it on the wrong side of the M50.
You are truly an embarrassment. Trying to pigeon hole me and what i say according to where you think i live, fwiw I'm born and raised and continue to live in rural Ireland and have spent only a few days of my life in the Capital.

No where have i mentioned that Dublin based politicians are less susceptible to stroke tendencies, indeed a scan of my post history will show i have made the point cute hoorism is a prevailing trait in all Irish politicians, irrespective of where they are form.

Save the ridiculous strawmans and anti Dublin codology for the barstool lad, you and Matty seem to be two chips off the same gombeen block. Cute hoors the pair of ye.
 

goatstoe

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That is a con job. And the handy thing is that the people, and the media, remember being conned by Labour in 1992 - so during the election campaign, any time a Labour person uses the first part of your claim, he or she will be forced to either admit or deny the second part. Denying the second part conclusively rules out FF, while admitting it hands political gold to FG, along with a pile of what would have been Labour seat gains.

Fact is that if FG and Labour have the seats, there'll be an FG-Labour government.
That's what I said, and that appears to be the most likely outcome. Hypothetically speaking FF may recover somewhat and obviously change the Dail arithmetic. I can tell you as a prospective Labour voter, if it was the case that Labour had the numbers to form a government with FF as junior partner I would expect Gilmore to form a government with FF under those circumstances. If Gilmore was to turn down the historic opportunity of having a Labour Taoiseach and Labour leading the government, that would be a monumental mistake and I would never vote Labour again. It's highly unlikely of course, not least because Fianna Fail would be more likely to go into opposition and try to regroup rather than be a junior partner in government. To my mind it matters not a whit if Lab deal with FG or FF, what's most important is that Labour do a deal that implements as much of their policies as possible.
 
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hiding behind a poster

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That's what I said, and that appears to be the most likely outcome. Hypothetically speaking FF may recover somewhat and obviously change the Dail arithmetic. I can tell you as a prospective Labour voter, if it was the case that Labour had the numbers to form a government with FF as junior partner I would expect Gilmore to form a government with FF under those circumstances. If Gilmore was to turn down the historic opportunity of having a Labour Taoiseach and Labour leading the government, that would be a monumental mistake and I would never vote Labour again. It's highly unlikely of course, not least because Fianna Fail would be more likely to go into opposition and try to regroup rather than be a junior partner in government. To my mind it matters not a whit if Lab deal with FG or FF, what's most important is that Labour do a deal that implements as much of their policies as possible.
No, I'm not talking about a situation where Labour's only option is an FG-Labour government. I'm telling you that if FG and Labour have 83 seats, they will form a government regardless of how many seats FF have.

Now, a simple question for you - why aren't Labour saying they'll coalesce with whichever party will implement more of their policies?
 

FutureTaoiseach

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No, I'm not talking about a situation where Labour's only option is an FG-Labour government. I'm telling you that if FG and Labour have 83 seats, they will form a government regardless of how many seats FF have.

Now, a simple question for you - why aren't Labour saying they'll coalesce with whichever party will implement more of their policies?
You are very naive if you think Labour will put FG into govt just to be nice to you- not least given Leo Varadkar's replacement of Michael McDowell as Labour's bete-noire. :rolleyes:
 

TommyO'Brien

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To my mind it matters not a whit if Lab deal with FG or FF, what's most important is that Labour do a deal that implements as much of their policies as possible.
They have to first of all have some policies.

Producing bullet points with no detail, promises to do things with no specifics as to how, or any costings and padding your policy page with fillers such as non-specific speeches, doesn't qualify.:p
 

hiding behind a poster

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You are very naive if you think Labour will put FG into govt just to be nice to you
Where did I say that?

not least given Leo Varadkar's replacement of Michael McDowell as Labour's bete-noire. :rolleyes:
FT, because a few kids with Labour avatars give out about Varadkar on an internet discussion site doesn't mean he's Labour's "bete-noire". You've got to stop mixing up what happens online with the real world of real politics.
 

TommyO'Brien

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FT, because a few kids with Labour avatars give out about Varadkar on an internet discussion site doesn't mean he's Labour's "bete-noire". You've got to stop mixing up what happens online with the real world of real politics.
Does FT himself exist in the real world off the internet?:p
 

FutureTaoiseach

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Where did I say that?



FT, because a few kids with Labour avatars give out about Varadkar on an internet discussion site doesn't mean he's Labour's "bete-noire". You've got to stop mixing up what happens online with the real world of real politics.
It's not just "kids with Labour avatars" but also speakers at the Ard Fheis. You political-cuckold you. :roll:
 

TommyO'Brien

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It's not just "kids with Labour avatars" but also speakers at the Ard Fheis. You political-cuckold you. :roll:
Jesus - FT, is there any limit to your lack of knowledge of politics? Surely you know what goes on at conferences? :rolleyes:
 

CookieMonster

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Wasn't Dick Roche fantastic?



What a turd of a man he is.
 


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