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Mitsui2

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Cynicism is the refuge of the unimaginitive
On the contrary, if you look up even a few posts by the FM you'll see that his/her imagination is quite extraordinarily vivid - clinically so, some might say.
 

Mitsui2

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This line really strikes me.

It is why the 'we all partied' or 'we're all to blame' line is so offensive.

Plenty of us never bought into the tatty tawdry sales pitch of the FF/PDs.

We were not all fools.
Might as well have been, Mar.

We certainly didn't all party, but we're picking up the tab.
 

He3

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...but not to you alone

Our liberties have been trampled on by a professional political class that is as fearful as it is incompetent, perhaps fearful because it is incompetent. Our futures have been mortgaged into the fourth generation to save a corrupt banking system. Those whom we pay to serve us have made slaves of us, and of our children, and of our children’s children.

Many, many people refused this reductionist vision; in community development projects, in hundreds of voluntary organizations, in our own lives, many of us refused — but we were swept away. It came to the point where, in a time when so many of our young people are taking their own lives, those of us who warned of the coming catastrophe, those of us who were struggling in all good faith to articulate a better way, were invited by the Taoiseach of our country to commit suicide.

We need to reflect on these things, calmly, dispassionately, and having reflected we must decide among ourselves what is to be done. That task will bear heavily on the shoulders of your generation. That responsibility, if you are brave and generous enough to accept it, will fall to you.
...but not to you alone. This responsibility falls to all of us.
 

He3

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Thanks.

Overhead Theo Dorgan on RTE radio about a fortnight ago, in a quite moving slot, giving some forthright and insightful thoughts about the economy and where we are as a country, intermixed with some quite moving pieces of poetry, Yates' "September 1913" - "It's with O'Leary in the grave" unsurprisingly makes an appearance. Can be found on the RTE website here, Theo comes on 36:30 minutes in.

Thanks for the link Finbar10
 

darkhorse

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Another pretentious git trying to jump on a populist bandwagon...
 

He3

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Another pretentious git trying to jump on a populist bandwagon...
What would you say to the students if you had the opportunity darkhorse?

.
 

darkhorse

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What would you say to the students if you had the opportunity darkhorse?

.
I would encourage them to realise that their future is in their own hands regardless of current difficult circumstances. Unlike TD, I would certainly discourage them from having a large chip on their shoulder about the past mistakes made by others.
 

He3

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As I read the script, he certainly encourages them to build their own futures, wherever that may be.

He is frank in his criticism of mistakes made, including himself in that, and is only acknowledging the obvious in pointing to the effects of those mistakes.

The idea that he is encouraging them to have a chip on their shoulder is hard to sustain I think. This is about as close as it gets:

This world you are about to inherit is not the world your teachers and parents would have wished for you. Where we should have been building a nation, we surrendered our better selves to the pitiless business of getting and spending. Where we should have been taking thought, considering how to build an economy that would serve a vision of being fully human, we gave ourselves over to the fevered dreams of the prophets of greed. And now we stand in the ruins before a rising generation and we ask ourselves, what has been done here? More pertinently, and painfully, what has been done to the children of the nation?

Do you disagree with that?
 

darkhorse

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As I read the script, he certainly encourages them to build their own futures, wherever that may be.

He is frank in his criticism of mistakes made, including himself in that, and is only acknowledging the obvious in pointing to the effects of those mistakes.

The idea that he is encouraging them to have a chip on their shoulder is hard to sustain I think. This is about as close as it gets:

This world you are about to inherit is not the world your teachers and parents would have wished for you. Where we should have been building a nation, we surrendered our better selves to the pitiless business of getting and spending. Where we should have been taking thought, considering how to build an economy that would serve a vision of being fully human, we gave ourselves over to the fevered dreams of the prophets of greed. And now we stand in the ruins before a rising generation and we ask ourselves, what has been done here? More pertinently, and painfully, what has been done to the children of the nation?

Do you disagree with that?
He encourages them to believe that the world they are facing has been destroyed - the underlying message is that if it all goes tits up for you - well here is someone you can blame.
Not the message one should give to graduates facing a difficult future
 

He3

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He encourages them to believe that the world they are facing has been destroyed - the underlying message is that if it all goes tits up for you - well here is someone you can blame.
Not the message one should give to graduates facing a difficult future
What message do you give people facing a difficult future if you simply confine your comments to acknowledgiing the difficulties facing them and avoid any analysis of how those difficulties came about?

That is a recipe for repeating the mistakes.

Lessons need to be learned by all of us if we are to recover and do better next time similar impulses rear their head, as they will. His comments serve that purpose.
 

darkhorse

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What message do you give people facing a difficult future if you simply confine your comments to acknowledgiing the difficulties facing them and avoid any analysis of how those difficulties came about?

That is a recipe for repeating the mistakes.

Lessons need to be learned by all of us if we are to recover and do better next time similar impulses rear their head, as they will. His comments serve that purpose.
The students dont need a lesson from TD in their graduation ceremony - in fact, they are leaving college and dont need a lesson from anyone anymore - a bit of encouragement is all thats needed and expected at such an occasion. All of the graduating students will be fully aware of the current situation and will have their own views on it. They dont need TD pontificating on why he thinks the country is in such a mess.
You wont hear Alex Fegusson giving a pep talk to the players before a match saying:
'Best of luck lads, but the weather is crap out there, the temperature is low, its late in the evening, the supporters are against us and the opposition is huge...'
If he did, they would obviously lose ...
 

He3

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Personal accounts relayed to me from students who were there suggest otherwise darkhorse.

They found Dorgan's speech inspiring.
 

Cirio

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The nation is beaten down, but not defeated. A certain kind of Ireland is over, and we are well rid of it; there is a new Ireland to be imagined and worked for, a new kind of Ireland to build, and it is you who must build it.

This piece should be framed and put up on the wall of every house in Ireland
We could take a Lutheran approach and nail the whole thing to the door of St Luke's. I don't imagine that those money-grubbers will get to read it otherwise.
 

He3

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We could take a Lutheran approach and nail the whole thing to the door of St Luke's. I don't imagine that those money-grubbers will get to read it otherwise.
St Lukes is an empty shell now.

Leinster House might be a better bet.
 

muffin

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Inda Kenny said:
The nation is beaten down, but not defeated. A certain kind of Ireland is over, and we are well rid of it; there is a new Ireland to be imagined and worked for, a new kind of Ireland to build, and it is you who must build it.

This piece should be framed and put up on the wall of every house in Ireland..

Horse urine.
I fail to see your point of view. You must be one nasty little individual. The above article clearly is stating hope and a future for Ireland. This is the only positive news I've come across in months of reading negativity. You must be a very sad person who dwells on other people's misfortunes and enjoy the recession. Hope is important for alot of people in Ireland. We need someone to be a leader to move us towards a future.
 

He3

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This is the only positive news I've come across in months of reading negativity. ... Hope is important for a lot of people in Ireland. We need someone to be a leader to move us towards a future.
We also need to be our own leaders where we can muffin.
 

asknoquestions

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Yours is the right and the power to imagine a new Republic
Yours is the choice whether to imagine it from Boston or Berlin.
Send us a postcard.
 

Berty

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Personal accounts relayed to me from students who were there suggest otherwise darkhorse.

They found Dorgan's speech inspiring.
I didn't graduate from UCC and I find that this speech says it as it is. And there has not been enough of that. He is on the button.

Whatever decisions people take they have to think of their children, because the politicians (the govt and the bastar&s of Independents who voted with them) have sold us out, crucifying the low-middle paid, the weak, the children and the unemployed.

Without trying to dramatize this, the position we are in is like being caught in a crossfire in a war that was started by the banks and the shower of a govt that continue to stink of arrogence. But it is a war without the bombs and bullets, but sooner or later we all will be hit in one way or the other, the main difference being that most of us will not be in a position to defend ourselves. My 2 cents....:shock2: Fair play to Theo Dorgan for articulating this.
 

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