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"There will be plenty of time for radical change and outspoken initiatives when the spade work is done."

GrimReefer

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
603
"There will be plenty of time for radical change and outspoken initiatives when the spade work is done."

Hard to find a forum to fit this into, as it's from an article by a Minister on the payroll of a national newspaper, but i think it captures neatly and perhaps without the author realising it, how utterly spurious the claims of Those Who Would Wreak Change on the system are, and always will be.

First week in the asylum: I lost my licence, not my drive - Independent.ie

I'll repeat it here again

"There will be plenty of time for radical change and outspoken initiatives when the spade work is done."
Now have a think about everyone who claims to be willing to take down and rebuild the system due to their radical thinking and ideas. Imagine all their huff and puff about how all that is needed is to put them "in power" and everything is gonna be different.

Shane Ross, scourge of the insiders, is not a wet week as a Minister and is already kicking change to touch. He even acknowledges that in fact, the civil servants whom everyone loves to think are just wasting time and soaking up taxpayers money, are in fact keeping the whole thing together and working insanely hard.

Shame Stephen Donnelly or David McWilliams or other pretend agents of change never did take a Cabinet post in a fairly stable, well developed not that badly off really country. But then I imagine they know that their whole reason for being is predicated on being right about how the "insiders" are wrong.

Being a perpetual outsider has its glamour, but changes nothing about the situation. HEnce my disdain for the claims of Bernie Sanders, Jeremy Corbyn, Jarry and indeed his Trumpness.

Ross may actually have done the body politic a favour by emphasising that for all the talk, you have to work with the system. Because that's the system we got. And it's a good one. If you have other ideas, go live in a country with real problems, like Afghanistan, or some world-class corruption like India.

I shall watch Ross with interest and hope that he may actually come to political Jesus and direct his madess and verbosity into constructive work around the Cabinet table.

If this Cabinet of misfits comes together, then Kenny will have once again done us a favour that we will scarcely have comprehended at the time, he will have shown that we don't have to be the same old status quo, diversity is now a part of politics, and it's time to build a government based on real diversity.

Here's to Enda lasting another full term, I just don't see a leader in the party who is not him.
 


Prester Jim

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Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Messages
9,946
Only the deeply cynical Sindo pretend to believe that the CS are part of the golden circle.
The top echelon are certainly well looked after for the work of running the state while the politicians look after themselves but it is the political and politically appointed elite and insider business elite that are generally seen as the golden circle.
They keep out outsiders and ensure continuity of wealth, opportunity and position for themselves.
Shane Ross, Sindo columnist, stockbroker and cheerleader for that golden business and banking circle and erstwhile slagger of the CS is no-one's idea of an outsider.
 

GrimReefer

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Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
603
Only the deeply cynical Sindo pretend to believe that the CS are part of the golden circle.
The top echelon are certainly well looked after for the work of running the state while the politicians look after themselves but it is the political and politically appointed elite and insider business elite that are generally seen as the golden circle.
They keep out outsiders and ensure continuity of wealth, opportunity and position for themselves.
Shane Ross, Sindo columnist, stockbroker and cheerleader for that golden business and banking circle and erstwhile slagger of the CS is no-one's idea of an outsider.
OK, so do you believe that outsiders (perhaps lead with an example) would really disrupt the political system, if an apropriate outsider were part of the government? Does it require a minimum number of outsiders? Does the system require a change, or just the folks in executive positions?

I'm genuinely interested to hear your view.
 

greengoose2

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Joined
May 30, 2009
Messages
24,897
That article was written by a default transport minister. Pure drivel from the glittering Kenny nominee. The other minister chappie who smokes also deals in pure drivel.

Enda seems to be even more cunning (dumb) than da Bert.
 

Prester Jim

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Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Messages
9,946
OK, so do you believe that outsiders (perhaps lead with an example) would really disrupt the political system, if an apropriate outsider were part of the government? Does it require a minimum number of outsiders? Does the system require a change, or just the folks in executive positions?

I'm genuinely interested to hear your view.
Unfortunately I believe that there are an awful lot of outsiders who are on the outside with their nose pressed to the window admiring and envying the insiders positions, who wants to get into power to get their own cronies in and who wants to actually change the system?
Renua were deaf just looking to get their own bunch (Eddy Hobbs for one) in and most of the Indos too, I am cynical about SF too, they haven't been too backwards about looking after their own in the north although that is a distorted system because of the headcount.
We can only hope that Clare Daly and Catherine Murphy are what they seem but I wouldn't be a fan of Clare Daly's politics personally.
 

Socratus O' Pericles

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Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Messages
32,865
The only reason Ross is "an outsider" is because he failed as a blue shirt in Wicklow.
 

Trainwreck

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Joined
Sep 6, 2012
Messages
26,416
Hard to find a forum to fit this into, as it's from an article by a Minister on the payroll of a national newspaper, but i think it captures neatly and perhaps without the author realising it, how utterly spurious the claims of Those Who Would Wreak Change on the system are, and always will be.

First week in the asylum: I lost my licence, not my drive - Independent.ie

I'll repeat it here again



Now have a think about everyone who claims to be willing to take down and rebuild the system due to their radical thinking and ideas. Imagine all their huff and puff about how all that is needed is to put them "in power" and everything is gonna be different.

Shane Ross, scourge of the insiders, is not a wet week as a Minister and is already kicking change to touch. He even acknowledges that in fact, the civil servants whom everyone loves to think are just wasting time and soaking up taxpayers money, are in fact keeping the whole thing together and working insanely hard.

Shame Stephen Donnelly or David McWilliams or other pretend agents of change never did take a Cabinet post in a fairly stable, well developed not that badly off really country. But then I imagine they know that their whole reason for being is predicated on being right about how the "insiders" are wrong.

Being a perpetual outsider has its glamour, but changes nothing about the situation. HEnce my disdain for the claims of Bernie Sanders, Jeremy Corbyn, Jarry and indeed his Trumpness.

Ross may actually have done the body politic a favour by emphasising that for all the talk, you have to work with the system. Because that's the system we got. And it's a good one. If you have other ideas, go live in a country with real problems, like Afghanistan, or some world-class corruption like India.

I shall watch Ross with interest and hope that he may actually come to political Jesus and direct his madess and verbosity into constructive work around the Cabinet table.

If this Cabinet of misfits comes together, then Kenny will have once again done us a favour that we will scarcely have comprehended at the time, he will have shown that we don't have to be the same old status quo, diversity is now a part of politics, and it's time to build a government based on real diversity.

Here's to Enda lasting another full term, I just don't see a leader in the party who is not him.
The only radical change needed from the Dail is a massive roll back in the role and size of government in many many parts of our lives.

Starting with a smaller Dail - much smaller, followed by a machete through swathes of unnecessary departments and semi-states and subsidies and "funding" etc. etc. etc.
 

greengoose2

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Joined
May 30, 2009
Messages
24,897
The only radical change needed from the Dail is a massive roll back in the role and size of government in many many parts of our lives.

Starting with a smaller Dail - much smaller, followed by a machete through swathes of unnecessary departments and semi-states and subsidies and "funding" etc. etc. etc.
And the astronomical allowances! And close that damned Dáil bar. It is not necessary.
 

Florence

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Joined
Oct 13, 2013
Messages
1,365
And the astronomical allowances! And close that damned Dáil bar. It is not necessary.
I couldn't agree more.

Interesting in the Ross article that he states that 'I have regularly travelled to work by bus in the past.' Now Lord Ross has always claimed his full 'turning up money' which he wouldn't have fully spent if he was regularly using public transport. At least AFAIK he hasn't claimed he takes the scenic route as does his Ministerial colleague Zappone which would get him lots more taxfree money.
 

greengoose2

Well-known member
Joined
May 30, 2009
Messages
24,897
I couldn't agree more.

Interesting in the Ross article that he states that 'I have regularly travelled to work by bus in the past.' Now Lord Ross has always claimed his full 'turning up money' which he wouldn't have fully spent if he was regularly using public transport. At least AFAIK he hasn't claimed he takes the scenic route as does his Ministerial colleague Zappone which would get him lots more taxfree money.
Maybe he owns the bus!
 

shiel

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2011
Messages
16,995
The only radical change needed from the Dail is a massive roll back in the role and size of government in many many parts of our lives.

Starting with a smaller Dail - much smaller, followed by a machete through swathes of unnecessary departments and semi-states and subsidies and "funding" etc. etc. etc.
You left out getting rid of the place for the insider elite and their cronies that we call the Seanad.
 

shiel

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Joined
Feb 14, 2011
Messages
16,995
Against the will of the people?
The retention of the seanad was cheer led by media and academia as a bolt hole for the insider elite and their cronies.

That was the same media and academia that cheer led the powerful vested interests when they were bankrupting the country during the boom.

That was the same media and academia that cheer led the opposition to water charges and the hypocrisy of people who introduced and supported water charges and then doing u-turns to oppose water charges.
 

statsman

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Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
55,059
THe will of the people has been compromised a long time ago by sleaze politicians and a corrupt fourth estate! Fool me once...
The retention of the seanad was cheer led by media and academia as a bolt hole for the insider elite and their cronies.

That was the same media and academia that cheer led the powerful vested interests when they were bankrupting the country during the boom.

That was the same media and academia that cheer led the opposition to water charges and the hypocrisy of people who introduced and supported water charges and then doing u-turns to oppose water charges.
My bad.A referendum every week until we get the vote right.
Democracy's a b1tch.
 

Man or Mouse

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
7,005
The retention of the seanad was cheer led by media and academia as a bolt hole for the insider elite and their cronies.

That was the same media and academia that cheer led the powerful vested interests when they were bankrupting the country during the boom.

That was the same media and academia that cheer led the opposition to water charges and the hypocrisy of people who introduced and supported water charges and then doing u-turns to oppose water charges.
Indeed. And that has Barry Cowen going around now like a dog with two mickies.
 


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