Those who got us here or stood idly by should suffer the most in any IMF bailout

[nonpartyboy]

The political classes, political establishment , county councils, rte ,semi states , quangos all the companies that exist on public sector contracts only, all state boards should all be slashed as part of any IMF bailout.

 

[mr. jings]

Those who got us here...should suffer the most in any IMF bailout

does that include the citizens who kept FF in at the last election?

 

[nonpartyboy]

does that include the citizens who kept FF in at the last election?

Well do you know who the were because i wasn't one of them, what do you want to do put them in camps or something ? We do know however the positions of power and accountibilty throughout the land who could have done or said something.

Half the presidents current pay, the taoiseach, ministers, secretary generals, semi state bosses , slash all the boards quangos etc. Set a limit on all publc sector pensions immediately of 75k , that will hit all the people who were in high places who have ran out the door and there are many of them.

 

[anarko]

they should all be made pay, notice you never mentioned the whimps that run our unions tho ? the time has come for the people that make up this country too stand up to our lying government, crap oppisition, faceless markets, imf and eu.
civil disobediance is our strongest tool.
this is our country, our streets, our hospitals , our schools, our present and future.
to all the people who say this will lead to more pain...... the apathy we've all suffered from has lead us to this point.
they wont listen to us, they use the courts to stop by-elections, the police to beat students off the street, the courts to jail the poor and the law to protect the criminal fat cats. a new government will solve nothing, the imf are calling the shoots now...... democracy in ireland is well and truely dead

 

[durkin]

Take responsibility for your own lack of action 'non party boy'. What were you doing while we were headed for the iceberg?
People calling for accountability in this country should admit that culpability goes all the way from top to bottom and includes themselves. Running around pointing fingers at everyone else doesn't help and will probably make things worse. Everybody who's responsible will suffer. That's all of us.

 

[neutral_lurker]

they should all be made pay, notice you never mentioned the whimps that run our unions tho ? the time has come for the people that make up this country too stand up to our lying government, crap oppisition, faceless markets, imf and eu.
civil disobediance is our strongest tool.
this is our country, our streets, our hospitals , our schools, our present and future.
to all the people who say this will lead to more pain...... the apathy we've all suffered from has lead us to this point.
they wont listen to us, they use the courts to stop by-elections, the police to beat students off the street, the courts to jail the poor and the law to protect the criminal fat cats. a new government will solve nothing, the imf are calling the shoots now...... democracy in ireland is well and truely dead

Really scary cos its true

 

[johnfás]

That tends not to be the consequence of IMF bailouts. The Washington Consensus tends not to generate the sort of growth necessary to deliver general increases in employment.

 

[JerkyBoy]

Everybody who's responsible will suffer. That's all of us.

Screw you Durkin, I'm not responsible for this.
Perhaps you feel like you are but don't project your guilt and shame onto the rest of us.

I never borrowed recklessly, I never gambled with other people's money, and I never voted for Fianna Fail.

Responsible my hole!

 

[anarko]

Take responsibility for your own lack of action 'non party boy'. What were you doing while we were headed for the iceberg?
People calling for accountability in this country should admit that culpability goes all the way from top to bottom and includes themselves. Running around pointing fingers at everyone else doesn't help and will probably make things worse. Everybody who's responsible will suffer. That's all of us.

yes we/most are guilty of inaction or not caring
however if a shopworker turns their head and ignores the direction of our country the implications and effect is small
but when biffo runs our country into the abyss
resulting in deaths of people due too cutbacks (manslaughter in my book)
then his guilt is uncomparable to that of joe soap.
possibly 1000 people in this country have 90% of the guilt in this regard
and when you say we'll all suffer, do you mean proportionally to our culpability, cause thats not what is happening

 

[anarko]

Screw you Durkin, I'm not responsible for this.
Perhaps you feel like you are but don't project your guilt and shame onto the rest of us.

I never borrowed recklessly, I never gambled with other people's money, and I never voted for Fianna Fail.

Responsible my hole!

agreed.......

 

[EUrJokingMeRight]

Take responsibility for your own lack of action 'non party boy'. What were you doing while we were headed for the iceberg?
People calling for accountability in this country should admit that culpability goes all the way from top to bottom and includes themselves. Running around pointing fingers at everyone else doesn't help and will probably make things worse. Everybody who's responsible will suffer. That's all of us.

Welcome to p.ie

You're already a winner.

For the worst first post ever award.

Still blaming everyone else for your actions.

 

[Limestone]

Take responsibility for your own lack of action 'non party boy'. What were you doing while we were headed for the iceberg?
People calling for accountability in this country should admit that culpability goes all the way from top to bottom and includes themselves. Running around pointing fingers at everyone else doesn't help and will probably make things worse. Everybody who's responsible will suffer. That's all of us.

As a citizen, I'm not one who stood up to be counted when it mattered by seriously questioning or attacking government policy between 2002 and 2007. I am therefore, to some extent culpable. My responsibility exists but is limited.

There are those who have high levels of responsibility and there are a small few who probably have no responsibility. We willl all suffer but it's important that people don't suffer undeservedly through any form of "collective responsibility".

Those driving big BMWs and living in expensive houses who can't now make their repayments and have no prospect of ever doing so, should be given their marching orders and evicted to council housing.

Those who have fed off the state in nothing jobs and offererd little in return should be pushed off the gracy train. Those in professions who's fees are too high should be forced to take cuts. Those who are abusing welfare should be stopped. There is a litany of deserving pain to spread - don't go after the undeserving under the umbrella of collective responsibility.

 

[anarko]

Welcome to p.ie

You're already a winner.

For the worst first post ever award.

Still blaming everyone else for your actions.

ah go easy on him......


none of the experts had predicted this
where were the regulators in all this
if he had of foreseen the leeman brothers colapse
soft landing
blah blah blah...........

 

[durkin]

I never borrowed recklessly, I never gambled with other people's money, and I never voted for Fianna Fail.

Funny, sounds exactly like me.
The point I'm trying to make is that in our country we never take collective responsibility. People are constantly saying 'the public sector is too big' or 'the fat cats in the private sector caused the problems' or other such things. Maybe you didn't buy a house that's in negative equity now but I bet someone close to you did. Or someone close to you has an investment property, or voted for Fianna Fail, or overspent on their credit card or whatever. I bet you know people who applauded developers for their entrepreneurial skill, people who bought into the Governments line that for the last ten years we were some kind of economic miracle and instead of checking it out bought a tabloid paper to find out about Brangelina's latest antics.
Maybe you are completely blameless, have lived and exemplary life and so have all your friends and family but if so, then you're in a tiny minority. We took our eye off the ball and let morons lead us into this. Man up and take some responsibility.

 

[nonpartyboy]

Take responsibility for your own lack of action 'non party boy'. What were you doing while we were headed for the iceberg?
People calling for accountability in this country should admit that culpability goes all the way from top to bottom and includes themselves. Running around pointing fingers at everyone else doesn't help and will probably make things worse. Everybody who's responsible will suffer. That's all of us.

Total rubbish, I did as much as I could. Voted against the current govt, warned family friends and posted on the internet as far back as 2004 about the road we were heading, now is the time for the people who could have, should have done or said something to be held responsible for their lack of action.

 

[durkin]

@EUrJokingMeRight: Thanks for noticing! What do I win?

@Limestone: Thanks for taking responsibility. I'm not trying to say everyone is completely responsible but the majority of us have some culpability, if only for our inaction or disinterest.

@anarko: ditto.

 

[Fides]

@EUrJokingMeRight: Thanks for noticing! What do I win?

@Limestone: Thanks for taking responsibility. I'm not trying to say everyone is completely responsible but the majority of us have some culpability, if only for our inaction or disinterest.

@anarko: ditto.

Durkin - I'm not sure what you actually expected those of us who saw this coming to do. Commentators who warned of this were all shot down and vilified. No chance of changing the political status quo then. Voted FG last time but I'm not convinced they would have done much differently. After that I would caution people about diving into property and running up credit but most didn't want to listen. In the end all you can do is prepare for the crash and make sure you and your family get through this.

 

[anarko]

@EUrJokingMeRight: Thanks for noticing! What do I win?

@Limestone: Thanks for taking responsibility. I'm not trying to say everyone is completely responsible but the majority of us have some culpability, if only for our inaction or disinterest.

@anarko: ditto.

ok fair enough
but since we all share some / loads of blame (depending on who you are)
who do we punnish or who should be made pay?
because im already paying, ive lost my job, my dole and rent allowance has been cut, im gonna be paying higher collage fees next year, higher road tax prob, my mother is being coerced into early retirment, then theres proerty tax, water charges, more revenue finning by gaurds...... the list is incomplete and endless
but our "leaders" arn't taking any of this pain......!
a bit of balance is needed

 

[durkin]

@Fides:
Perhaps I'm being a little too general by blaming everyone. I'm sure there were plenty of people who saw this coming. I was told four years ago by a Canadian economist that we were in a property bubble and it wasn't going to end well. The point is that the majority of people acted as if there would be no end to the good times. Just as everyone says that bondholders should take the pain for the risks they took investing, so should we take the responsibility for our own screw-ups.

 

[anarko]

@Fides:
Perhaps I'm being a little too general by blaming everyone. I'm sure there were plenty of people who saw this coming. I was told four years ago by a Canadian economist that we were in a property bubble and it wasn't going to end well. The point is that the majority of people acted as if there would be no end to the good times. Just as everyone says that bondholders should take the pain for the risks they took investing, so should we take the responsibility for our own screw-ups.

but the bondholders arn't taking it WE are.
so i struggle to see why you apear to be more concerned that joe soap feels his pain and not the bondholders, bank execs. polititions, banking economists etc.